Rank: Member Joined: 7/5/2008 Posts: 390
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Finally, we now know who is the culprit in the pre/post 2007 election violence: http://www.nation.co.ke/...2/-/pyjmiq/-/index.html
The GUILTY are AFRAID!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/31/2008 Posts: 7,081 Location: Kenya
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...asn usual... weare being finished...we are being targetted...This makes me sick whenever I hear it from any community leaders...
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Rank: Elder Joined: 5/30/2009 Posts: 1,390
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I also dont like the direction these investigations are taking.They're now investigating PCs and PPOs.It seems they're only directed at state sponsored killings i.e.police shootings.Whatever the number killed by police, I am convinced(at the risk of being unpopular) that a good number of those shot were thugs who deserved to die.In Bondo, Tuju's home had round the clock police protection.Every so often, a huge crowd of thugs would assemble and try attack his home.The police would shoot 1 or 2, then the rest would run but come again in a day or 2.There were cases of looters,people who want free things,rapists,arsonists and mobs who put police officers and gvt officials' lives in danger.BTW, how come no 1 talks bout gvt officials who lost their lives in the madness?...I would also be uncomfortable with a list with majority Kikuyu suspects.That wld mean reactionary violence is punished more than the originators!...I have a feeling we'l end up with the violence financiers and plotters watching the trials from the safety of their homes What a wicked man I am!The things I want to do,I don't do.The things I don't want to do I find myself doing
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/6/2009 Posts: 108 Location: nairobi
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so kuyos were supposed to turn the other cheek, looking at the chronology of events i think kiambaa happened before naivasha;we all know they were reacting(revenge) and rightly so.if somebody picks a panga and slashes your tribesman on the basis of tribe alone,what are supposed to do?wait for your turn?....hakuna. if you aint livin on the edge,you are taking too much space....
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/11/2008 Posts: 2,306
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@Kadonye, bepari, The PEV suspects from the ODM side may not have official protection and I would think Ocampo pretty much has a tight case against them. The PNU lot on the other hand are in power and capable of protecting their own. The PNU side must have thought they could cover up their evil brothers. They are now discovering just how thick things are and the howls of dismay are very much in order... Buy the way I thoroughly love Ocampo's tactics. Guys are so scared that they want to be questioned by Ocampo in the presence of their lawyers, wives, mboches, sijui a high court judge Etc etc. Most think they will be sacrificed to Ocampo by the real PEV masterminds. I dare say someone will let the cat out of the bag before the questioning ends... I agree that there will be no justice done if only one side is targeted. We know both sides are just as guilty... Great men are not always wise, neither do the aged understand judgement...
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/27/2008 Posts: 4,114
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bepari wrote:so kuyos were supposed to turn the other cheek, looking at the chronology of events i think kiambaa happened before naivasha;we all know they were reacting(revenge) and rightly so.if somebody picks a panga and slashes your tribesman on the basis of tribe alone,what are supposed to do?wait for your turn?....hakuna. This where matters become complicated: If I attacked you with a panga and you pulled out your gun and shot me dead, you would have a very good case of self defence. If on the other hand I attacked you with the panga and injured you, then the following day you came to my house and shot and killed my brother, that would not qualify as self-defence. The Kiambaa attack and Naivasha revenge are seen as two independent events in the eyes of a disinterested party (Ocampo)....unless this happened in a war situation. Now some might argue that the PEV was a war, but technically, now war was declared [even between the fighting communities], not even a state of emergency was declared. However; for those of us who lived through the PEV, we can see some justification for the Naivasha attack in response to the one at Kiambaa. Indeed, I have heard arguments that the Naivasha incident was the reason that the PEV ended. This is why I say that this is a complicated matter. I don't think it can be solved through legal means alone [ICC or local tribunal] Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
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Rank: Member Joined: 7/5/2008 Posts: 390
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kadonye wrote:Whatever the number killed by police, I am convinced(at the risk of being unpopular) that a good number of those shot were thugs who deserved to die. @Kadonye, What if, and I repeat, what if those who were killed by the police were Kambas (just like you), would your argument above still hold?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 5/30/2009 Posts: 1,390
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Apple Bees wrote:kadonye wrote:Whatever the number killed by police, I am convinced(at the risk of being unpopular) that a good number of those shot were thugs who deserved to die. @Kadonye, What if, and I repeat, what if those who were killed by the police were Kambas (just [/[b]b]like you), would your argument above still hold? Apple Bees,where did you get such crap from?Ati mimi ni mukamba?  Let's be real.The thugs we had in the last election were vicious and uncontrollable.They even killed provincial admin people and police!They robbed, killed, raped the works!W3hen a robber is shot dead, we don't come out crying for him,do we? A friend told me about stuff that happened in Bungoma where a local businessman enlisted police to protect his trucks which were distributing merchandise around.These thugs would not even budge on seeing the police.Their intention was to loot and torch the truck.The police had to open fire! Relax on the security forces.Give them a fair hearing.They too suffered in the chaos Ati mimi ni muukaamba If mimi ni mukamba na the thugs were wakamba, I would still have the same viewpoint What a wicked man I am!The things I want to do,I don't do.The things I don't want to do I find myself doing
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Rank: Elder Joined: 5/30/2009 Posts: 1,390
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@Robinhood, @Mukiha, some nice views there.Things are not always as they appear What a wicked man I am!The things I want to do,I don't do.The things I don't want to do I find myself doing
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Rank: Elder Joined: 8/11/2010 Posts: 1,588
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Robinhood wrote:@Kadonye, bepari,
The PEV suspects from the ODM side may not have official protection and I would think Ocampo pretty much has a tight case against them. The PNU lot on the other hand are in power and capable of protecting their own. The PNU side must have thought they could cover up their evil brothers. They are now discovering just how thick things are and the howls of dismay are very much in order...
Buy the way I thoroughly love Ocampo's tactics. Guys are so scared that they want to be questioned by Ocampo in the presence of their lawyers, wives, mboches, sijui a high court judge Etc etc. Most think they will be sacrificed to Ocampo by the real PEV masterminds. I dare say someone will let the cat out of the bag before the questioning ends...
I agree that there will be no justice done if only one side is targeted. We know both sides are just as guilty...
you know robin hood, all these woiyee moments ati 'our tribe is being targetted' would not have arisen had someone from another, different, part of the country appointed into those security offices. but the appointing authority made sure that they were from one geographic place. now when it gets hot, you get these cries. indeed, borrowing from apple bees, if the individuals at the top of the security chain were from other communities, would we be hearing these nonsense? and who says mere pc and ppo are to be charged? they are prime witnesses. they only have to say so and so ordered us to do that! is that why wool is being pulled over our eyes so that we mistake them that they are the ones being targeted? and not only state sponsored thugs are to be investigated. only the other thugs do not have the platform to say their community is being targeted.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/11/2008 Posts: 2,306
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@Yesuwako, I was avoiding the tribal angle in view of the heat it generates in this forum. You are right tho... even today, the chiefs of the security apparatus in the country still come from you know where... I guess someone forgot to tell them that responsibility comes with risk... That said, there are no good PEV killers. All are killers and Ocampo should have a field day hanging these guys by the nuts. I have particularly little sympathy for the 'offical' killers who let things deteriorate and then unleashed thugs instead of quelling the troubles within the law. BTW, did someone say we have the capacity to prosecute the PEV killers? FYI, that cop who killed a Kisumu demonstrator in cold blood and on camera is a free man courtesy of our justice system. Great men are not always wise, neither do the aged understand judgement...
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/2/2009 Posts: 2,458 Location: Nairobi
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Stocks aside
We've all started being stupid.. even good old elders i respected in the forum.. kila mtu sasa anaona pande yake...
We are indeed burukenges.. Mwafrika Nywele ngumu, mambo yake ngumu....
@Mukiha though you try to lean on the fence im very dissappointed at your notion with this paragraph
"However; for those of us who lived through the PEV, WE CAN SEE SOME JUSTIFICATION for the Naivasha attack in response to the one at Kiambaa. Indeed, I have heard arguments that the Naivasha incident was the reason that the PEV ended."
dont try clarifying it.. you'd come out as a politician
Truth be told every community.... KIKUYUS,LUOS,LUHYAS,KALENJINS are culprits...
However I'd expect high ranking Kikuyu and Kalenjin, then Luo in the list to be more than anybody elses.. they can go hang.. nimechoka kuhesabiwa as 'tribe' everytime justice is mentioned for the politicians....
NIMESEMA!!!!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/9/2009 Posts: 6,592 Location: Nairobi
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This is stupidity at it's highest. These politicians are messing for these guys and maybe that's their intention. Are you really helping someone or destroying his chances when you go demonstrating on his behalf because he's been given a fair opportunity to prove his innocence?
BBI will solve it :)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/26/2008 Posts: 2,097
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 "Never regret, if its good, its wonderful. If its bad, its experience."
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/26/2008 Posts: 2,097
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mukiha wrote:bepari wrote:so kuyos were supposed to turn the other cheek, looking at the chronology of events i think kiambaa happened before naivasha;we all know they were reacting(revenge) and rightly so.if somebody picks a panga and slashes your tribesman on the basis of tribe alone,what are supposed to do?wait for your turn?....hakuna. This where matters become complicated: If I attacked you with a panga and you pulled out your gun and shot me dead, you would have a very good case of self defence. If on the other hand I attacked you with the panga and injured you, then the following day you came to my house and shot and killed my brother, that would not qualify as self-defence.
Good judgement!!! The Kiambaa attack and Naivasha revenge are seen as two independent events in the eyes of a disinterested party (Ocampo)....unless this happened in a war situation. Now some might argue that the PEV was a war, but technically, now war was declared [even between the fighting communities], not even a state of emergency was declared. However; for those of us who lived through the PEV, Everyone who is alive today lived through it!!! And indeed some lived through worst situations than Mikiha and co., I myself lost some property and was never compensated!!! we can see some justification for the Naivasha attack in response to the one at Kiambaa. OMG!!! I cant believe this is coming from MUKIHA!!!! I have always thought that this guy not only can he be a mentor but also a role model. ANYONE guilty should face justice, be it my brother, neighbor, tribes-mate, my MP, or my HoS!!! Indeed, I have heard arguments that the Naivasha incident was the reason that the PEV ended. This is why I say that this is a complicated matter. I don't think it can be solved through legal means alone [ICC or local tribunal] Please someone just tell me that we don't have a fox in sheep's skin!!! Was it a slip of the tongue? "Never regret, if its good, its wonderful. If its bad, its experience."
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/26/2008 Posts: 2,097
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@ Mukiha!!!
This where matters become complicated:
If I attacked you with a panga and you pulled out your gun and shot me dead, you would have a very good case of self defence.
If on the other hand I attacked you with the panga and injured you, then the following day you came to my house and shot and killed my brother, that would not qualify as self-defence.
Good judgement!!! The Kiambaa attack and Naivasha revenge are seen as two independent events in the eyes of a disinterested party (Ocampo)....unless this happened in a war situation. Now some might argue that the PEV was a war, but technically, now war was declared [even between the fighting communities], not even a state of emergency was declared.
However; for those of us who lived through the PEV,
Everyone who is alive today lived through it!!! And indeed some lived through worst situations than Mikiha and co., I myself lost some property and was never compensated!!!
we can see some justification for the Naivasha attack in response to the one at Kiambaa.
OMG!!! I cant believe this is coming from MUKIHA!!!! I have always thought that this guy not only can he be a mentor but also a role model. ANYONE guilty should face justice, be it my brother, neighbor, tribes-mate, my MP, or my HoS!!! Indeed, I have heard arguments that the Naivasha incident was the reason that the PEV ended. This is why I say that this is a complicated matter. I don't think it can be solved through legal means alone [ICC or local tribunal]
Is this justification for the PEV? Oh my, f**k that!!! Please someone just tell me that we don't have a fox in sheep's skin!!! Was it a slip of the tongue?  "Never regret, if its good, its wonderful. If its bad, its experience."
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Rank: Elder Joined: 5/30/2009 Posts: 1,390
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@Robinhood, I think we had good killers in the PEV-the police!It's easy to judge them by claiming they used excessive force but I think the police are being demonised unfairly especially when you introduce the tribal angle What a wicked man I am!The things I want to do,I don't do.The things I don't want to do I find myself doing
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Rank: Member Joined: 7/31/2007 Posts: 341
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kadonye wrote:I think we had good killers in the PEV-the police! I can't believe some of the stuff i'm reading here. Ati good killers! OMG can yo tell that to the mother of the young boy in Kisumu who was shot in cold blood with cameras rolling that he was killed by a "good killer?" I'm gobsmacked!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 5/30/2009 Posts: 1,390
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chris79 wrote:kadonye wrote:I think we had good killers in the PEV-the police! I can't believe some of the stuff i'm reading here. Ati good killers! OMG can yo tell that to the mother of the young boy in Kisumu who was shot in cold blood with cameras rolling that he was killed by a "good killer?" I'm gobsmacked! @Chris, I cant believe the hypocrisy here.You are a policeman entrusted with protecting lives and property.You encounter these thugs and rapists doing their evil stuff.Will you watch or act?Truth be told there were cases of excesses like the Kisumu case which was plain wrong.By the way how many died from police shootings?less than 400!Who killed the other 700plus?...While some of you just look at the police through tribal eyes, please do not forget the reports made by eld IDPs about policemen who would taunt them 'kazi iendelee' when they sought help from them. What a wicked man I am!The things I want to do,I don't do.The things I don't want to do I find myself doing
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Rank: Member Joined: 7/31/2007 Posts: 341
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@kadonye, that's my point exactly. All these people are killers, there's no two ways about it...
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