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INDUSTRIAL COURT GIVES NHIF THE GO AHEAD
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Fundaah
#21 Posted : Tuesday, September 28, 2010 3:09:52 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/19/2008
Posts: 1,267
These rates are not Justified... what has NHIF done with the deductions they have been making?

which hospitals will now be covered after the increase?....

If I will be able to walk in and out of Kenyatta hospital private wing... aga khan Nairobi ..... MP shah.... Avenue... without being asked a penny then I support....

But then will the said hospitals have the capacity to ....give quality services given the surge of patients with the 'free' services......?
Isaiah 65:17-Look! I am creating new heavens and a new earth, and no one will even think about the old ones anymore
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mukiha
#22 Posted : Tuesday, September 28, 2010 5:41:15 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
MaichBlack wrote:
mukiha wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
The government should fund health care [among other things] from our taxes! But with a government that spends 90%+ on recurrent expenditure, what do you expect?

Please check your facts before writing.

In the famous "trillion-shilling" 2010/11 budget, Sh320b (32%) was earmarked for development expenditure while Sh680b (68%) was for recurrent expenses.

Where did you get the 90% figure from?

Even during the worst (and last) KANU year (2002/03), the recurrent expenses were allocated 13% (Sh43b) of the Sh324b budget.

In case you are wondering where I got my figures from, go here: www.treasury.go.ke

Most of this "development projects" are never implemented. What is important is how much was actually spent on development in say 2008 - 2009 and how much was actually spent on development projects?

Our government is like an alcoholic who can prepare a very nice budget but end up using most of the money on alcohol. Almost always some money is diverted from development projects to recurrent expenditure. And don't forget every time there is a deficit and we have to borrow money it is always for recurrent expenditure! In 2009 - 2010, do you know how much of our taxes was used on recurrent expenditure? 100%! Development 0%!!!

Here is a link that might answer some of your questions:

Budget Breakdown

Please be realistic.

If 0% went development expenses, it means that there was no development project funded by the government, doesn't it?

Now how about the following that come straight out of my head:

Expansion of Mombasa Road from Mlolongo to Machakos [still on-going]

Refurbishment of Prime-minister's office

Northern bypass

Eastern bypass

All the CDF projects

etc

etc

etc

Oh; I had forgotten, Thika road expansion [and don't say it is the Chinese - there isn't a single cent from the Chinese in that project!]
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
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mukiha
#23 Posted : Tuesday, September 28, 2010 5:49:08 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
Fundaah wrote:
These rates are not Justified... what has NHIF done with the deductions they have been making?

which hospitals will now be covered after the increase?....

If I will be able to walk in and out of Kenyatta hospital private wing... aga khan Nairobi ..... MP shah.... Avenue... without being asked a penny then I support....

But then will the said hospitals have the capacity to ....give quality services given the surge of patients with the 'free' services......?

Here is the list of the 65 accredited hospitals in Nairobi alone. For other regions, visit: http://www.nhif.or.ke/healthinsurance/hospitals/


1. EDELVALE TRUST JAMAA H$M HOSPITAL
2. EMMAUS INNERCORE NURSING HOME
3. FAMILY HEALTH OPTIONS
4. HURUMA NURSING & MATERNITY HOME
5. KAYOLE HOSPITAL
6. MARIA MAT. & NURSING HOME
7. MARIAKANI COTTAGE HOSPITAL
8. MATER MISERICORDIAE HOSPITAL NAIROBI
9. METROPOLITAN HOSPITAL
10. NAIROBI EQUATOR HOSPITAL
11. NAIROBI SOUTH MEDICAL CENTRE
12. NAIROBI WEST HOSPITAL
13. OLIVE TREE HOSPITAL
14. SOUTH 'B' HOSPITAL
15. ST. ANNES MATERNITY HOME - NAIROBI
16. ST. JAMES HOSPITAL
17. UMOJA HOSPITAL
18. CITY NURSING HOME NAIROBI
19. COPTIC CHURCH NURSING
20. DIVINE WORD PARISH HEALTH CENTER
21. DORKCARE NURSING HOME LTD
22. ENKITOK JOY NURSING HOME
23. KAREN HOSPITAL LTD
24. KENYATTA NATIONAL HOSPITAL (AMENITY WING
25. KENYATTA NATIONAL HOSPITAL (GENERAL WARD
26. KILIMANJARO NURSING & MATERNITY HOME
27. LANGATA HOSPITAL
28. MADINA NURSING HOME
29. MAGADI SODA COMPANY HOSPITAL MAGADI
30. MARIE STOPES KENYA LIMITED
31. MARURA NURSING HOME
32. MASABA HOSPITAL
33. MATASIA HEALTH CLINIC
34. MATHARE MENTAL HOSPITAL (GENERAL WARD)
35. MBAGATHI DISTRICT HOSPITAL
36. MELCHIZEDEK HOSPITAL
37. MENELIK MEDICAL CENTER
38. MIDHILL MATERNITY & NURSING HOME
39. MOTHER & CHILD HOSPITAL
40. NAIROBI HOSPITAL NAIROBI
41. NAIROBI WOMEN'S HOSPITAL
42. NATIONAL SPINAL INJURY HOSPITAL
43. NGONG HILLS HOSPITAL
44. NGUMBA CENTER AND LABORATORY SERVICES
45. PARKROAD NURSING HOME (NAIROBI)
46. PUMWANI HOSPITAL MANAGEMENT BOARD
47. SAMARITAN MEDICAL SERVICES
48. SINAI MT.HOSPITAL
49. ST.FRANCIS COMMUNITY HOSPITAL
50. UNIVERSITY OF NAIROBI HEALTH SERVICES
51. AVENUE HEALTHCARE LTD
52. BLESSED LOUIS PALAZZOLO HEALTH CENTER
53. CHIROMO LANE MEDICAL CENTRE
54. EDIANA NURSING HOME
55. GERTRUDES GARDEN CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL NBI
56. GURU NANAK RAMGARHIA SIKH HOSPITAL
57. H.H. AGAKHAN HOSPITAL (NAIROBI)
58. KAMITI HOSPITAL
59. KASARANI NURSING & MAT. HOME
60. LIONS SIGHT FIRST EYE HOSPITAL
61. MARIA IMMACULATE HOSPITAL
62. RADENT HOSPITAL
63. S.S. LEAGUE M.P SHAH HOSPITAL NAIROBI
64. ST. JOHN'S HOSPITAL LTD
65. UZIMA DISPENSARY AND MATERNITY
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
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Fundaah
#24 Posted : Tuesday, September 28, 2010 5:56:52 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/19/2008
Posts: 1,267
Will the system change? .....was once admitted in Nairobi Hospital....
NHIF paid for me only Kshs 5,700 out of Kshs 250,000 bill for the 3 day stayShame on you Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you and after paying NHIF for nearly 9 years ......
Thats why I am uncomfortable with the increase.....

Isaiah 65:17-Look! I am creating new heavens and a new earth, and no one will even think about the old ones anymore
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mukiha
#25 Posted : Tuesday, September 28, 2010 6:03:22 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
Here is a "copy&paste" from the Accredited Hospital page:

"Under Category A (government hospitals), members would be able to enjoy full and comprehensive cover for maternity and medical diseases including surgery. In short, they will not need to pay for anything on admission provided they are fully paid up members of NHIF. Members admitted under contract Category B (private and mission) hospitals will enjoy full and comprehensive cover but where surgery is required, the contributor may be required to co-pay.

Those visiting facilities contracted under Category C (private) will continue with the current system where NHIF pays specified daily benefits under the current arrangements. NHIF will continue to negotiate with other health providers not appearing in the list below to determine which category of contract they will sign. Members will be informed of additional hospitals as and when they sign the contracts."
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
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Fundaah
#26 Posted : Tuesday, September 28, 2010 6:11:19 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/19/2008
Posts: 1,267
Mukiha Have you recently visited any of the public hospitals...No Syringes....No medicines....Nurses with attitude...no doctors...no equipments....yet NHIF has been throwing our contributions into corruption mega scandals ....with these scandals in mind ....can we say that what we are contributing now is not enough?....if there were prudent management at NHIF ....would we really oppose ?....aren't we opposing because the little that we have been contributing is being misused?
Isaiah 65:17-Look! I am creating new heavens and a new earth, and no one will even think about the old ones anymore
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MaichBlack
#27 Posted : Tuesday, September 28, 2010 6:12:56 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,452
mukiha wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
mukiha wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
The government should fund health care [among other things] from our taxes! But with a government that spends 90%+ on recurrent expenditure, what do you expect?

Please check your facts before writing.

In the famous "trillion-shilling" 2010/11 budget, Sh320b (32%) was earmarked for development expenditure while Sh680b (68%) was for recurrent expenses.

Where did you get the 90% figure from?

Even during the worst (and last) KANU year (2002/03), the recurrent expenses were allocated 13% (Sh43b) of the Sh324b budget.

In case you are wondering where I got my figures from, go here: www.treasury.go.ke

Most of this "development projects" are never implemented. What is important is how much was actually spent on development in say 2008 - 2009 and how much was actually spent on development projects?

Our government is like an alcoholic who can prepare a very nice budget but end up using most of the money on alcohol. Almost always some money is diverted from development projects to recurrent expenditure. And don't forget every time there is a deficit and we have to borrow money it is always for recurrent expenditure! In 2009 - 2010, do you know how much of our taxes was used on recurrent expenditure? 100%! Development 0%!!!

Here is a link that might answer some of your questions:

Budget Breakdown

Please be realistic.

If 0% went development expenses, it means that there was no development project funded by the government, doesn't it?

Now how about the following that come straight out of my head:

Expansion of Mombasa Road from Mlolongo to Machakos [still on-going]

Refurbishment of Prime-minister's office

Northern bypass

Eastern bypass

All the CDF projects

etc

etc

etc

Oh; I had forgotten, Thika road expansion [and don't say it is the Chinese - there isn't a single cent from the Chinese in that project!]

Read the post carefully. I said 100% and 0% of our taxes. Do you know the other sources of money for the government or should I list them down?
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
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kadonye
#28 Posted : Tuesday, September 28, 2010 8:59:52 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/30/2009
Posts: 1,390
The NHIF contribution-is it deductible for taxation purposes?If it's not, this amounts to punishing the worker!What rationale was used in coming up with these high figures?I've started budgeting but the thought of paying such an amount for insurance is disturbing.I wish it was NSSF
What a wicked man I am!The things I want to do,I don't do.The things I don't want to do I find myself doing
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mukiha
#29 Posted : Wednesday, September 29, 2010 8:20:38 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
Fundaah wrote:
Mukiha Have you recently visited any of the public hospitals...No Syringes....No medicines....Nurses with attitude...no doctors...no equipments....yet NHIF has been throwing our contributions into corruption mega scandals ....with these scandals in mind ....can we say that what we are contributing now is not enough?....if there were prudent management at NHIF ....would we really oppose ?....aren't we opposing because the little that we have been contributing is being misused?

@Fundaah;
Right now, as we are discussing this, my brother is recuperating at KNH. There are medicines; there are syringes; nurses have attitude - very good one (!!!) and very helpful; doctors are available (but number should be increased)....

Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
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mukiha
#30 Posted : Wednesday, September 29, 2010 8:24:42 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
@MaichBlack; In the last five financial years, the government budget has not factored in aid money. Thus even the trillion shillings of 2010/11 is fully financed from taxes.

Government borrowing from bonds and bills is necessary for streamlining cash flow during the financial year. But these bonds and bills (plus their interest) are repaid using tax money.

So all the projects listed above (plus others not on the list) are financed by our taxes.
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
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Ja-Kom
#31 Posted : Wednesday, September 29, 2010 10:25:39 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/28/2009
Posts: 290
And whats with assigning everyone a hospital for a year? .. I should be able to walk in anywhere for the so called improved services! The increases can only be justified if and only if services are SEEN to improve as they say.But saizi,am not so sure anything will change.
For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous. Romans 5:19
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emlyn ngwiri
#32 Posted : Wednesday, September 29, 2010 10:34:50 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/12/2010
Posts: 129
Location: nairobi
i think the big shots are sourcing for money to fund new lavish cars
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Sasha
#33 Posted : Wednesday, September 29, 2010 11:32:45 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/5/2007
Posts: 627
I seem to remember Dr Richard Muga i.e. the Chairman of the NHIF Board indicating that the main plan is to build another referral hospital in Nairobi.

The grapevine says that the initial plan was to look for land somewhere in Embakasi to build the hospital there. But since land prices are comparatively cheaper in Embakasi and therefore difficult to inflate, the plan changed to Karen where you can easily inflate the prices, thus a chance to embezzle the money.

Other referral hospital are welcome. But why put them in Nairobi? Why not one in Isiolo, another one in Kisii, another one in Voi etc. Why should someone come all the way from Loiyangalani to come and queue at KNH or Karen?
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groupielove
#34 Posted : Wednesday, September 29, 2010 11:34:40 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/21/2010
Posts: 119
Location: Nairobi
mukiha wrote:
Fundaah wrote:
Mukiha Have you recently visited any of the public hospitals...No Syringes....No medicines....Nurses with attitude...no doctors...no equipments....yet NHIF has been throwing our contributions into corruption mega scandals ....with these scandals in mind ....can we say that what we are contributing now is not enough?....if there were prudent management at NHIF ....would we really oppose ?....aren't we opposing because the little that we have been contributing is being misused?

@Fundaah;
Right now, as we are discussing this, my brother is recuperating at KNH. There are medicines; there are syringes; nurses have attitude - very good one (!!!) and very helpful; doctors are available (but number should be increased)....


Are you taliking of KNH that we'll know? A Kenyatta where there is nothing like emergency. My friend's daughter was hit by a speeding matatu at 6pm, dashed to KNH by 7pm and she was only checked the following day at 7am. She didn't make it. Last month I took a critically ill person and was only admitted at 7pm after spending in Hos the whole night. If u have an emergency, the place to avoid is KNH.Let's see how they will do with the NHIF money
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groupielove
#35 Posted : Wednesday, September 29, 2010 11:40:17 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/21/2010
Posts: 119
Location: Nairobi
Sasha wrote:
I seem to remember Dr Richard Muga i.e. the Chairman of the NHIF Board indicating that the main plan is to build another referral hospital in Nairobi.

The grapevine says that the initial plan was to look for land somewhere in Embakasi to build the hospital there. But since land prices are comparatively cheaper in Embakasi and therefore difficult to inflate, the plan changed to Karen where you can easily inflate the prices, thus a chance to embezzle the money.

Other referral hospital are welcome. But why put them in Nairobi? Why not one in Isiolo, another one in Kisii, another one in Voi etc. Why should someone come all the way from Loiyangalani to come and queue at KNH or Karen?

The plan didn't change. I understand they have already acquired land off Kangundo road on your way to Kayole (which is in Emba).
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bird_man
#36 Posted : Wednesday, September 29, 2010 12:57:40 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/2/2006
Posts: 1,206
Location: Nairobi
@Mukiha,interesting.You are the only one defending this punitive contributions.This means you know something that most of us might not know.Or perhaps some of us are ignorant as far as all these is concerned.

Question1:Why is the contribution mandatory?Why not make it optional so that those who prefer private health insurers contribute there?

Question2:NHIF has been implicated in many mega-scandals.From land to ICT software & equipment.Every big shot in fact has a contract with them for this and that.The reason that NHIF has not been able to adequately insure is not due to lack of funds but mismanagement & ineffective policies.What has changed?Why should i contribute more funds only to be misused?
Formally employed people often live their employers' dream & forget about their own.
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Ric dees
#37 Posted : Wednesday, September 29, 2010 1:29:04 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/6/2008
Posts: 632

From the onset this looks like an idea whose time has come. I can understand the feelings of the populace here esp in regards to the company in question NHIF and it's chequered past.It's blatantly unfair to ask some-one who earns 20k to pay the same as one who earns 200k that is un-acceptable!!

However from where i am standing the issue to me is the rational behind this move, SOCIAL Health Insurance, so they call it. This is a leftist ideology and what worries me is, what are we being set up for? What is in-store in the future with a possible left leaning government? I think this are the questions we should be asking ourselves and what reprieve if any can we hope for. Is leftisim the future??

The greatest danger in times of turbulence is not the turbulence; it is to act with yesterday's logic.
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Tebes
#38 Posted : Wednesday, September 29, 2010 4:39:09 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/26/2008
Posts: 2,097
After 540 million was sunk into collapsed Euro Bank......

And none recovered......

Now comes new investment ideas......

To sink in more money......

As we draw closer to 2012 election year.....

Funds will be required.....
"Never regret, if its good, its wonderful. If its bad, its experience."
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mjuaji wa stocks
#39 Posted : Wednesday, September 29, 2010 5:06:51 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/16/2010
Posts: 672
Location: nairobi
there is already an uproar in the U.S because of Obamacare....which is being replicated here in kenya....

That the gava will chose to insure you...means you will be subject to go to their hospitals of choice.....for you to benefit from their insurance.......possibility of chosing a doctor for youis high too.....what about chosing who to treat and who not to??,......it amountss to chosing who should die and who should live...

I fear this socialism thing....i fear a big brother government.....i fear the secret behind this universal insurance thing.......probably population control in the offing.....

Why trust a corrupt gava to take care of my health??Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you

TO ME ...THIS IS ROBBERY!!NKT.
God gave me the power to make wealth ... Blessed the work of my hands & enabled be A SELF MADE BILLIONAIRE ...... TO GOD THE FATHER OF MY LORD JESUS CHRIST; BE THE GLORY NOW & FOREVER MORE!
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mukiha
#40 Posted : Wednesday, September 29, 2010 5:22:51 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
@groupielove; Yes, KNH. I agree with you, the process of getting treatment takes a very long time. We took my bro there at 8pm and got him admitted at 4am - 8hrs later.

However, in all the dealings with the nurses and doctors at the Emergency section, I found their attitudes quite good. Especially considering the workload they had to deal with.

If I were the one on duty that night, I would have gone mad! With that in mind, I think they try very hard to treat all patients. But when some one becomes impatient with them, they can react badly. So be polite with them and you will be amazed.

Speaking of delayed treatment; I once went to Mater Hospital with chest pains. I arrived at 1pm went through the following:
Registration - 3min
Preliminary check-up with nurse (temp, bp etc) - 2min
Consult with doctor - 5min
ECG check-up - 2min
2nd consult with doctor - 3min
Present prescription to pharmacy - 30sec
Pay for drugs - 1min
Collect drugs - 2min

Total time getting actual service was 13min, 30sec..... I left the hospital at 6.30pm - 5hr 30min later!!!!!

So, given that KNH is a public hosp, I'd say they are out-doing the private ones, 10-nil!!!
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
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