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INDUSTRIAL COURT GIVES NHIF THE GO AHEAD
emlyn ngwiri
#1 Posted : Tuesday, September 28, 2010 10:20:12 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/12/2010
Posts: 129
Location: nairobi
Hi,

the industrial court has seen that the additional premium charge for employees is justifiable? i ask how is it?

if i pay my med premium so that i can get good treatment say at aga khan hispital why should i pay say 1500 toward something that i probably will never be treated in a public hospital.

additionally i think that the addition to the nhif contribution should be voluntary in the sense that they should increase ones contribution to say sh500 then any addition should be voluntarily contributed by oneself.

though a 21 day notice has been given by cotu and paliament has resumed,this is the best time for them to refute that premium!
kyt
#2 Posted : Tuesday, September 28, 2010 10:46:23 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/7/2007
Posts: 2,182
Will the parliament inhabitants really be upto the task?
LOVE WHAT YOU DO, DO WHAT YOU LOVE.
Sober
#3 Posted : Tuesday, September 28, 2010 11:25:46 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/27/2007
Posts: 3,604
I thought the higher one earns th higher the tax she's to pay proportionally.
How do they then say that guys earning over 100k pay two thousands.
African parents don't know how to say sorry.. the closest you will get to a sorry is a 'have you eaten'
dossy7
#4 Posted : Tuesday, September 28, 2010 12:06:31 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 1,491
Location: Nairobi
Now that the courts decided to agree that we pay more towards this fund.why can't the govt just reduce our tax and include it into this scheme?
How are we sure that even if we contibute the money will be put into good use?
God bless Kenya we need divine intervention
Kenya ni yetu sisi sote
Impunity
#5 Posted : Tuesday, September 28, 2010 12:13:29 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2009
Posts: 26,328
Location: Masada
I felt so sad.
Sad Sad Sad
Sad Sad Sad
Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.

muendoz
#6 Posted : Tuesday, September 28, 2010 12:16:09 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 12/1/2009
Posts: 36
I wonder how effective would Atwoli's threat of workers strike would be. I don't think i will be part in the strike......
I reward myself with beer!
dossy7
#7 Posted : Tuesday, September 28, 2010 12:19:22 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 1,491
Location: Nairobi
Even if you go on strike and the amount is already deducted.The strike will not help.
My suggestion is they appeal to a higher court so as to prolong the implementation
Kenya ni yetu sisi sote
MaichBlack
#8 Posted : Tuesday, September 28, 2010 12:26:16 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,452
The government should fund health care [among other things] from our taxes! But with a government that spends 90%+ on recurrent expenditure, what do you expect? This government is extremely top heavy and should shed it's weight ASAP to free up resources. One of the best quotes from Kibaki when he won the election was that he will have a very lean government. His words exactly were "Even when a fellow is too fat he is not very efficient" or something to that extent. Too bad we ended up with the 'fattest fellow' in the history of Kenya under his watch.

On the NHIF rates, this is highway robbery. This money will not improve health care one bit. And to make matters worse, you are not given an option to join or hit the highway. ABK!!! COTU should fight to the hilt. I hope this time round, the middle class, who will be the most affected by the way, will support/join COTU whatever their next course of action is. Hapana mambo ya kungoja updates kwa TV!!!
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
bird_man
#9 Posted : Tuesday, September 28, 2010 12:32:41 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/2/2006
Posts: 1,206
Location: Nairobi
So now that the rates have gone up, what extra services should we expect from NHIF....and perhaps even of more importance, where?
Formally employed people often live their employers' dream & forget about their own.
muendoz
#10 Posted : Tuesday, September 28, 2010 12:42:24 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 12/1/2009
Posts: 36
I understand if you are not registered for NHIF you cannot be a beneficiary. So there is no way this move will help the deserving poor
I reward myself with beer!
XSK
#11 Posted : Tuesday, September 28, 2010 1:00:15 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 12/8/2009
Posts: 975
Location: Nairobi
dossy7 wrote:
Now that the courts decided to agree that we pay more towards this fund.why can't the govt just reduce our tax and include it into this scheme?
How are we sure that even if we contibute the money will be put into good use?
God bless Kenya we need divine intervention


It is a truly sad day for many but there is always a second side to the story. We should give them (NHIF Board) some benefit of doubt. Just for the record i dont think this increment was justifiable.
You will know that you have arrived when money and time are not mutually exclusive "events" in you life!
mukiha
#12 Posted : Tuesday, September 28, 2010 1:18:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
MaichBlack wrote:
The government should fund health care [among other things] from our taxes! But with a government that spends 90%+ on recurrent expenditure, what do you expect?

Please check your facts before writing.

In the famous "trillion-shilling" 2010/11 budget, Sh320b (32%) was earmarked for development expenditure while Sh680b (68%) was for recurrent expenses.

Where did you get the 90% figure from?

Even during the worst (and last) KANU year (2002/03), the recurrent expenses were allocated 13% (Sh43b) of the Sh324b budget.

In case you are wondering where I got my figures from, go here: www.treasury.go.ke
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
MaichBlack
#13 Posted : Tuesday, September 28, 2010 1:35:02 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,452
XSK wrote:
It is a truly sad day for many but there is always a second side to the story. We should give them (NHIF Board) some benefit of doubt. Just for the record i dont think this increment was justifiable.

Benefit of doubt??? Seriously!? Seems you are not aware of all the scandals associated with NHIF. While at it why not have this fund managed by Kamlesh Pattni? We can also give him the benefit of doubt.

Don't be fooled by anyone! After having 1k - 2k deducted from you net salary every month you will still have to foot your own medical bills. Either that or you end up on the floor at Kenyatta Hospital waiting for help as the doctors pass you by. Hii pesa inaenda directly kwa mifuko ya watu!!!
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
mjuaji wa stocks
#14 Posted : Tuesday, September 28, 2010 1:36:06 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/16/2010
Posts: 672
Location: nairobi
@mukiha....Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you ..treasury is the same government.....the government that spends your taxes.

I find it funny that you trust their figures or percentages ,......with all this corruption in it.

I am not that naive!!!!!!Sad Sad Sad
God gave me the power to make wealth ... Blessed the work of my hands & enabled be A SELF MADE BILLIONAIRE ...... TO GOD THE FATHER OF MY LORD JESUS CHRIST; BE THE GLORY NOW & FOREVER MORE!

mukiha
#15 Posted : Tuesday, September 28, 2010 1:42:43 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
I think the new rates are fair. To pay sh24k per year for an in- and out-patient cover for a family of six (mum, dad, + 4 kids) is quite cheap. If you doubt it, check out what the private sector is charging.

The problem, I think, comes from two issues:

FIRST: NHIF has not been revising its premiums regularly. So, when they jumped from Sh320pm to Sh2,000, an outcry was only natural. If my memory serves me right, the old rates have been in operation since the day I started working in April 1991 - 19.5 years ago! The jump is only an average 10%pa since then.

SECOND: Since the premiums have been stagnant, the benefits have also not changed by much. But the costs of hospitalisation have moved up with inflation. Therefore; getting sh2,000 per night at Nairobi Hospital while the bill can be sh20k [sh5k for the bed + sh15k for medical and nursing services] seemed ridiculous.

This is the reason why the public doesn't trust NHIF with public money. However; in recent years, the cost of fraudulent bills at NHIF has been comparable to that in the private sector (AAR, Resolution etc)

Now that the courts have refused to stop the increment, we have to wait and see how NHIF manages the funds. Going on strike might not be the best way to solve it.
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
mukiha
#16 Posted : Tuesday, September 28, 2010 1:50:02 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
mjuaji wa stocks wrote:
@mukiha....Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you ..treasury is the same government.....the government that spends your taxes.

I find it funny that you trust their figures or percentages ,......with all this corruption in it.

I am not that naive!!!!!!Sad Sad Sad

You don't seem to understand my point.

I have told you where I got my figures from. Where did you get yours?

The beauty of wazua is that we argue with verifiable information. So; when you say 90%, you must be able to explain how you arrive at it!

On another point: corruption affects both development and re-current expenditure in equal measure. So whether the recurrent is 68% or 90%, the amount stolen through corruption remains the same!

So I ask you again: where did you get that 90% figure from? Was it just a guess? If it was, just say so and stand "coLLected"; as we say in wazua.
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
mukiha
#17 Posted : Tuesday, September 28, 2010 1:56:02 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
mukiha wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
The government should fund health care [among other things] from our taxes! But with a government that spends 90%+ on recurrent expenditure, what do you expect?

Please check your facts before writing.

In the famous "trillion-shilling" 2010/11 budget, Sh320b (32%) was earmarked for development expenditure while Sh680b (68%) was for recurrent expenses.

Where did you get the 90% figure from?

Even during the worst (and last) KANU year (2002/03), the recurrent expenses were allocated 13% (Sh43b) of the Sh324b budget.

In case you are wondering where I got my figures from, go here: www.treasury.go.ke

mjuaji wa stocks wrote:
@mukiha....Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you ..treasury is the same government.....the government that spends your taxes.

I find it funny that you trust their figures or percentages ,......with all this corruption in it.

I am not that naive!!!!!!Sad Sad Sad

The above exchange makes me wonder: is mjuaju wa stocks the same individual as MaichBlack?
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
emlyn ngwiri
#18 Posted : Tuesday, September 28, 2010 1:59:42 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/12/2010
Posts: 129
Location: nairobi
it may be a scheme to finance the nhif officials luxury cars he he!
actually its not equitable you earn 60k you ate charged 1500, you earn 99999 you get charged 1500 but you add sh 1 to mahe it 100k you get charged 2k! wa! these guys are really not for real!
MaichBlack
#19 Posted : Tuesday, September 28, 2010 2:00:47 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,452
mukiha wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
The government should fund health care [among other things] from our taxes! But with a government that spends 90%+ on recurrent expenditure, what do you expect?

Please check your facts before writing.

In the famous "trillion-shilling" 2010/11 budget, Sh320b (32%) was earmarked for development expenditure while Sh680b (68%) was for recurrent expenses.

Where did you get the 90% figure from?

Even during the worst (and last) KANU year (2002/03), the recurrent expenses were allocated 13% (Sh43b) of the Sh324b budget.

In case you are wondering where I got my figures from, go here: www.treasury.go.ke

Most of this "development projects" are never implemented. What is important is how much was actually spent on development in say 2008 - 2009 and how much was actually spent on development projects?

Our government is like an alcoholic who can prepare a very nice budget but end up using most of the money on alcohol. Almost always some money is diverted from development projects to recurrent expenditure. And don't forget every time there is a deficit and we have to borrow money it is always for recurrent expenditure! In 2009 - 2010, do you know how much of our taxes was used on recurrent expenditure? 100%! Development 0%!!!

Here is a link that might answer some of your questions:

Budget Breakdown
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
bird_man
#20 Posted : Tuesday, September 28, 2010 2:35:05 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/2/2006
Posts: 1,206
Location: Nairobi
I hate this!This is sheer impunity!
Perhaps someone has answers to my questions....
The rates have gone up,where are we going to get the proposed services at?Can I walk to Nairobi Hospital and use NHIF to pay for outpatient services?
Why cant they make the payments optional?One might argue that its our duty as the rich to pay for the less fortunate.But can they get the services without a NHIF card considering most are unemployed?

All said,this is a way of "eating" public money with a lot of impunity.NHIF has the highest number of ICT projects and purchases I know of.Every major ICT deal has NHIF somewhere as the client!
Formally employed people often live their employers' dream & forget about their own.
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