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Upper, middle, lower classes in our society
Wendz
#1 Posted : Friday, September 24, 2010 1:40:40 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/19/2008
Posts: 4,268
I dont know if i am the only one who has noted this or we are many of us....

At the risk of being called all manner of names, and i really hope we can have an honest conversation here without attacking each other, what does the society make of these classes?

What i have seen here in Wazua, when someone who is thought to be in upper class comments something about what the middle class or the lower class are doing 'wrong' we are up in arms and beying for his blood. The same happens when the middle class does the same regarding the lower class.....

My humble question is, arent the rich supposed to be proud of their achievements (however humbly) without the other groups feeling like they are bragging about it(and which they have a right to by the way), or the middle class the same... and of course even the lower class? Arent we supposed to be proud of what we have achieved as people regardless of your class (and here am not placing myself in any class because if you compare me with someone in the streets without a shelter, then i will be in upper class(and i thank God for his mercies), if you compare me with JHM I will be in the lower class(but am still glad i can put food - however cheap in JHM's eyes - on my table))... so these classes are certainly relative......

So, why do we keep bashing each other about these classes? Why cant we learn from each other and see how to improve to where our peers/colleagues etc are? Everyone has a story of how they got where they are. Majority of us have come from where any "middle class" would call the lower class and where the lower class would even dread to be (say the lowerest class).

If someone is bashing the thugs, irrespective of the class they are in, they totally have a right to.... If he/she is complaining of insecurity, he has a right to. if he is complaining of a 'shanty' neighbourhood coming up behind his "maisonette", please let him do, because, if he built his "maisonette" next to Kabogo's palace, he would probably shift....Be proud of your class and thank God for his blessings..... You have no apologies to make for where you are.
McReggae
#2 Posted : Friday, September 24, 2010 1:49:52 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
Wendz, good one!!!!

And while at it, where is the boundary in terms of these classes, I have never understood but most people who blog believe they are in the middleclass!!!
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
Jacy26
#3 Posted : Friday, September 24, 2010 2:03:15 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/26/2008
Posts: 365
@Wendz...are you defending @Surealligator? Just asking?
If you have only one smile in you, give it to the people you love - Maya Angelou
Wendz
#4 Posted : Friday, September 24, 2010 2:12:28 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/19/2008
Posts: 4,268
Jacy26 wrote:
@Wendz...are you defending @Surealligator? Just asking?


Many..... they have been many threads on the same... the current one is just one of them..... And i would prefer we dont drag it here so that we can stick to the issues at hand... check out one where I think it was @mukiha was complaining of some thugs, there was also another on thika road, and another on a road across runda or something like, another on children and private/public schools - thats what i can remember of head and my pretty used up brain shouldn't allow me to remember so many so quickly..... see what i mean?
bkismat
#5 Posted : Friday, September 24, 2010 3:12:37 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/23/2009
Posts: 2,375
You should be proud of your achievements but you shouldn't go around telling other people that you despise them.
It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt...
-Mark Twain
XSK
#6 Posted : Friday, September 24, 2010 3:24:44 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 12/8/2009
Posts: 975
Location: Nairobi
Wendz wrote:

if you compare me with JHM I will be in the lower class(but am still glad i can put food - however cheap in JHM's eyes - on my table))... so these classes are certainly relative......



@WENDZ

Who or what is JHM? Could it be John HM?

To response to your issue, my opinion is rooted in the words of one writer

Be smarter than other people, just don't tell them so.
H. Jackson Brown, Jr.




You will know that you have arrived when money and time are not mutually exclusive "events" in you life!
Gordon Gekko
#7 Posted : Friday, September 24, 2010 3:28:21 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/27/2008
Posts: 3,760
@wendz, wouldn't call it class divide, but age divide. For instance - I will bash qw any day just because I feel he/she is younger than me. I will defend you, @mukiha, @njunge just because I feel you are my age-mates - regardless of the topics or standpoints.
Djinn
#8 Posted : Friday, September 24, 2010 3:37:19 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/13/2008
Posts: 1,565
@Wendz - I think its more about attitude and ego. One can be in the highest of classes and still treat everyone else as human beings....in a post about the Juja and other by elections, I think it was SimonKabz who made a comparison between Kabogo and whathisname of CitiHoppa - that Kabogo will sit down with the people and have a beer....etc etc.

In the same breadth, I have always admired poor people who are never ashamed of their stations in life and walk proud and stand tall.

Having said that, I recall Maslow's hierarchy of needs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs) - think of all the people you know personally and those we hear about like politicians, etc...try and think where they belong in Maslow's Pyramid....

I personally find that even the most affluent people, as long as they have big egos and poor attitudes, can never self actualise (top of the pyramid) and remain very petty despite having met their basic needs. They are miserly bastards that look down upon the rest. On the other hand, you have people of modest means who are content with what they have and want no more than they need - it could be a teacher, a cleaner, a doctor, (a lawyer? no scratch that smile), etc but they have esteem and can self actualise in small but very impactful ways.

Having said that, its true - sometimes the affluent look down upon the rest - and what is worse is when they themselves had humble beginnings.

My two pesetas on a Friday...

Magigi
#9 Posted : Friday, September 24, 2010 3:46:35 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/31/2008
Posts: 7,081
Location: Kenya
...People should be proud of what they have...but dont go bragging about your achievements. I guess in this forum we have all categories of people...from cleaners to CEOs...If I have worked hard why shouldnt I be proud and enjoy what I have achieved,as long as I dont despise others. Anyang Nyongo does not know where else he can have his lunch other than Serena. He is a doctor...studied hard day and night when others were f***ing around... Let the guy enjoy...
2012
#10 Posted : Friday, September 24, 2010 3:55:19 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,592
Location: Nairobi
I think it is hard for a nation like Kenya to celebrate and appreciate the wealthy within mostly because we are exposed to negative stories of how they acquired it. Is there one wealthy Kenyan you can think of who doesn't a "story"? I can only think of Muguku but I'm sure there are people who have a -ve story about him. I think I'm currently middle class headed up and I'm proud of it.

BBI will solve it
:)
Much Know
#11 Posted : Friday, September 24, 2010 4:54:46 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 3,549
The maslows hierarchy application here is a good one. Apart from which one should consider, is it natural(it may be natural) to brag about ones accomplishments and for the less accomplished to feel despised?

One of the more recent and acclaimed studies on Human emotional development by Bruce Perry talks of Self-Regulation as a core strength. Let me cite an example:-

It is natural for most apes and other animals to defecate as they move around but to humans, it is uncivil if not offending for one to defecate as they please. Teaching a child to control the urge to defecate where and when they please (and to undergo the continued discomfort) as it offends others is civil but not necessarily natural . Civility requires that you take into account the consequences of your urges, liberties e.t.c upon your fellow man. In this case, awareness that most people are offended by bragging (what is 2500/-?, i am going to spend that on just lunch) means you cope better emotionally and socially if you restrain yourself. It also means you have coping problems if the case is reversed. The comments Nyon'go made could seriously dent his public image which is his bread and butter. What does it say of his state of emotional development and social coping skills?
Meru Holiness
kadonye
#12 Posted : Friday, September 24, 2010 5:02:54 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/30/2009
Posts: 1,390
Gordon Gekko wrote:
I will bash qw any day just because I feel he/she is younger than me. I will defend you, @mukiha, @njunge just because I feel you are my age-mates - regardless of the topics or standpoints.

I thought @qw25041985 clarified that he's much older than his name suggests.He plunged into the NSE in 1995!
What a wicked man I am!The things I want to do,I don't do.The things I don't want to do I find myself doing
muganda
#13 Posted : Friday, September 24, 2010 5:03:28 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/15/2006
Posts: 3,906
In a capitalist society, anyone with money is assumed to be better looking, more intelligent, harder working, and classy. But this is not the case! It's natural that since many seem to be looking for money, your opinion is sought more, your status at times envied, and your 'head grows bigger'.

My personal opinion is compared to the average income of all Kenyans, many in Wazua would be judged as upper class.


Is being rich an achievement? Perhaps, but it takes someone who's really really wealthy to tell you what matters in life. If you were to list 3 of your greatest achievements in life, where would money fall?
(adventure, beauty, charity, competition, creativity, discipline, excellence, family, friendship, fun, generosity, honesty, humility, humour, integrity, justice, kindness, knowledge, learning, love, loyalty, order, originality, patriotism, spirituality, spontaneity, teaching, time, tradition, truth, wisdom, working)


So @Wendz, I think we should thank God for our blessings while asking pardon for our worldliness and pride.
Disclaimer: I have often been described as being very money minded

Ric dees
#14 Posted : Friday, September 24, 2010 5:29:17 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/6/2008
Posts: 632
@Wendz..interesting view point, let me give my contribution..In the School i want to (Read Uni) we were indeed encouraged to be proud of our achievements but however we were cautioned that not every-one will accept, infact the very mere fact, will be treated with disdain, contempt almost that i have seen all too well in my life as well as Wazua. That said we are a product of our experiences this sums as all..here is why, my experience in Uni and later life.

On one hand, life revolved around hours slogging away in the library, messy club nights and copious quantities of cheap wine. On the very opposite end of the scale, real food and an escape from college bureaucracy awaited tantalisingly at home. The alternative realities of the average student split us down the center.

The Ivy switch-over is a little more off the rails than normal. It’s rather bemusing to go from an environment where a disproportionately large percentage of the population have a doctorate, a penchant for smart casual trousers, waist-coats and a nicely beveled brogue, to the normal world, in which trackies, jeans & mini-skirts are more realistic attire.

The Ivy “bubble” looms large. Although not a campus university, the general consensus amongst students is that the colleges’ dominance over a compact city center creates a sometimes stifling atmosphere.

As our term came to an end, a conversation unfolded about how home provides “nothing to do”, and how the college's 24/7 barrage of activity is welcome relief from siblings that “drive us nuts”.

Once we become accustomed to the eight-week blitz, it seems, any slower pace of living – i.e. anything besides a career in the NY, London or Singapore – drags by painfully.

I don’t think my experience here is much outside the Normal Distribution. In the mtaa I call home,(Msee was Starehe) the reading material of choice is well nothing. Obohos,girls ho-ing, and the football-pitch is the hub of the universe on a sunny Saturday afternoon. My "new' world, makes The Kiss FM’Classic FM trivia, look positively enthralling. As I wave good-bye to Uni at the end of each term, the rapid deceleration in the pace of life is very noticeable.

So i asked myself? Does the experience change throughout a university career? Does one simply accept the fact that home and college life/work are pretty much irreconcilable, and learn to treat one’s role in each differently?

Well i have had to do so...my point is which you drove all too well, what may seem "Normal" to me, may not be in another s eyes..however do i stifle myself to make you feel comfortable???
Do i not share my contributions, speak of my experiences for fear of sounding elitist??

I am not saying i am, but am posing a question, @Djinn raised a fundamental point "attitude and ego" contribute to the differences we see in terms of how we relate/see one another.

So back to my point regarding our experinces, now imagine that Kenyan who works in Nasa, or a kenyan chick i know is a top dawg in CISCO, if they were to go and say open their companies in Kenya, make a trip to Sheria house, what would you think will happen, name calling, threats?? For people who are used to operating a a high level- where excuses do not exist then..you will notice the difference through their words and attitudes..trust me i know.

The greatest danger in times of turbulence is not the turbulence; it is to act with yesterday's logic.
VituVingiSana
#15 Posted : Friday, September 24, 2010 6:54:21 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,140
Location: Nairobi
Gordon Gekko wrote:
@wendz, wouldn't call it class divide, but age divide. For instance - I will bash qw any day just because I feel he/she is younger than me. I will defend you, @mukiha, @njunge just because I feel you are my age-mates - regardless of the topics or standpoints.

Just as bad! No wonder we end up with the same senile geriatrics in parliament!!!!
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
KenyanLyrics
#16 Posted : Saturday, September 25, 2010 2:53:42 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 4/16/2010
Posts: 906
Location: Nairobi
One thing regarding class on Wazua; I have noticed that many of us like to pretend that we are bottom of the pyramid consumers! You have money to spend on internet, refreshing threads on Wazua all day, but then when Masaa ya Kubamba comes, you say things like "what if I don't have 100 bob to buy credit?" You don't have to pretend to be poor to fit in with the common mwananchi
mozenrat
#17 Posted : Sunday, September 26, 2010 3:30:03 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/18/2008
Posts: 796
Reminds me of that so-called nurse who stated that we had no right to feel indignant about the murder of the KQ pilot on Uhuru highway becoz, according to her, she tends to tens of dying patients daily from Kibera.

I just wondered whether she'd screwed her head on right that morning!
mwenza
#18 Posted : Sunday, September 26, 2010 7:22:06 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/22/2009
Posts: 2,863
mozenrat wrote:
Reminds me of that so-called nurse who stated that we had no right to feel indignant about the murder of the KQ pilot on Uhuru highway becoz, according to her, she tends to tens of dying patients daily from Kibera.

I just wondered whether she'd screwed her head on right that morning!



Maybe she was brought up in Kibera.
IF YOU EXPECT ME TO POST ANYTHING POSITIVE ABOUT ASENO, YOU MAY AS WELL SIT ON A PIN
Wendz
#19 Posted : Monday, September 27, 2010 9:16:50 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/19/2008
Posts: 4,268
mwenza wrote:
mozenrat wrote:
Reminds me of that so-called nurse who stated that we had no right to feel indignant about the murder of the KQ pilot on Uhuru highway becoz, according to her, she tends to tens of dying patients daily from Kibera.

I just wondered whether she'd screwed her head on right that morning!



Maybe she was brought up in Kibera.


And???? That gave her a reason not to care about another life lost simply because it was brought up elsewhere?

This weekend i saw a comment on my son's books... it said something like "we are happy when we pass our exams but we shouldn't boast to others"..... I think this is the spirit! Problem is when ones happiness is construed to mean "boasting"... hence, we do not give others a chance to celebrate their achievements however small, without making them feel guilty.
akowally
#20 Posted : Monday, September 27, 2010 10:59:25 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/20/2008
Posts: 1,126
Location: Nairobi
"People hate rich people" I heard that in one of the law sitcoms on telly and it is a theory that's proven to be true to a higher percentage.

Personally as long as you exercise humility and respect, you can always air your views. I agree that you don't have to pretend to be on the lower end if you aren't and vice versa.

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