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Cost of borrowing
rishman
#1 Posted : Thursday, April 30, 2009 7:28:00 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3
Hi everyone

does anyone have any ideas on this predicament

one wants to buy an apartment for lets say Kshs 10 million. Cost of borrowing is at 14% pa. If u take a loan for 15 years your monthly repayment will be Kshs 133,174 meaning after 15 years you have have paid a total of Kshs 23,971,320(180 x 133.174). It doesn't make sense to borrow at this high rates. Are there any institutions who give mortgages at cheaper rates than 14% or what is the solution!!. How much does one have to earn a month to be able to finance a loan and run the house at the same time and what about school fees etc??!!!


bobby the shares guru
kyt
#2 Posted : Thursday, April 30, 2009 8:02:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/7/2007
Posts: 2,182
what is the name of this institution?
is this 14% p.a. on a flat rate or on a reducing balance?
i will check on the rates at my place of work and i will get back to you on monday evening.
Thank you.

hasta la vista
LOVE WHAT YOU DO, DO WHAT YOU LOVE.
Mkimwa
#3 Posted : Friday, May 01, 2009 6:50:00 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/26/2008
Posts: 380
I think the market rate for mortgages in Kenya is about 14-15%.

Unless you are a banker,in which case you get mortgages as low as 5%(Stanchart),7%(Barclays),or a civil servant - 5%

One question though - The interest rates in Japan are as low as 1%.. can one take advantage of these rates to buy property say in Kenya?

Just wondering..
Tokyo
#4 Posted : Saturday, May 02, 2009 11:59:00 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/9/2006
Posts: 1,502
The interest rate of mortage in Japan is 0.94%. The max loan duration is 35yrs/420 months.Then if its a new house,the government reduces citizens tax as a subsidy.This is to stimulate the economy . But you cant borrow that money for e.g construction overseas.should be in Japan only.
work to prosper
pops
#5 Posted : Monday, May 04, 2009 8:06:00 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/13/2006
Posts: 123
sounds a bit ridiculous. are u sure you have worket it out right. what are the details i.e. how much deposit will u be paying,will the interest be charged on reducing balance basis?
Gordon Gekko
#6 Posted : Monday, May 04, 2009 3:47:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/27/2008
Posts: 3,760
Your mortgage repayments should not exceed 50% of your pay. If you want a cube worth 10M then work backwards to figure out how much you should be making,else work forwards with your current pay to figure out what sort of mortgage you should can support. Another thing,your first house doesn't have to be in Kileleshwa. Start with Komarock,build equity on the house,trade in for BuruBuru. Build equity on BuruBuru,trade in for South 'C'. Soon you will be in Kile.
Waria
#7 Posted : Monday, May 04, 2009 6:35:00 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/11/2007
Posts: 213
I agree with you. Mortgage rates in kenya are ridiculous!! its slavery i tell you.
Once EB bought out HFCK i expected them to shake up the mass market but NOoo... their bespectacled MD is still barking up the wrong tree

Lets wait for this REITS thing and see how it works out

Me first,U next
Tokyo
#8 Posted : Tuesday, May 05, 2009 1:42:00 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/9/2006
Posts: 1,502
@pops

thats true. interest rate in Japan is 0.94%-1.25% .mortgage loan very easy to get as far as you have a full time job.only requirement is last yrs tax record NOTHING else.The loan should not exceed 40% of your monthly income. Of course its reducing balance meaning after 35yrs you repay 0.54 to 0.67 interest the value of initial mortgage. The faster you repay the cheaper. N/B the consumers are very protected by law that the bank MUST disclose all information in the contract.
work to prosper
mukiha
#9 Posted : Tuesday, May 05, 2009 5:34:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
This is my personal experience:

In early 2002,an opportunity arose to buy a flat in a very decent neighbourhood. Cost was Sh2.5m. Terms were: deposit 10%,balance payable in 15years at 15%pa interest. Therefore,monthly installments were sh31k

At that time I was paying sh17k rent for an identical flat (in the same block!). I took the deal an moved to the 'my' flat.

Now instead of paying the agreed 31k for the mortgage,I paid 40k every month. At that rate,I had calculated that the loan would be finished in 8 years instead of the agreed 15.

Two and a half years later,I lost my job and I had to cut the payments back to 30k. But by that time,the loan balance had gone so below the standard amount that the minimum installment payable was 28k instead of 31k.

So,even with 30k,I was still paying more than the required amount.

Over the next four years,I slowly upped the installment to 35k as my finances improved. By November last year,the loan balance was 930k. Now if I had stuck to the agreed 31k installment,my balance at that moment would have been 1.77m....a whole 840k more.

Nov last year I did some digging and found some money sleeping in a dormant pension account...from my previous employment. I cash it out and cleared the 930k loan balance. Now I am debt-free...making me one of the richest people in the world!

By the way,the flats now are fetching up to 30k per month in rent and their market value is well over 5m.

Moral of the story:


Don't spend too much time complaining that mortgage rates in Kenya are too high. If you don't like them,move to country where the rates are cheaper....houses in Japan are at least ten time more expensive than in Kenya.

The mortgage installment for the house you are staying in is approximately double the rent you are paying.
Your rent will double in the next five years. Decide now whether you want to be paying the rent or the mortgage in 2014....the two amounts will be the same

When you sign up for a mortgage,make sure you can afford slightly more than what the bank asks for...and do pay the little extra
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
bwenyenye
#10 Posted : Tuesday, May 05, 2009 1:51:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/24/2007
Posts: 1,805
Good people,

@Mukiha,congratulations on your achievement. It is very rare to hear victory stories of mortgages in Kenya ( or even good stories of anything). I hope by 'Now I am debt-free...' actually means that you are now free to take higher risks knowing that should things go awry,you still have a roof over your head... Keep going my brother..
I Think Therefore I Am
Obi 1 Kanobi
#11 Posted : Tuesday, May 05, 2009 2:47:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
@Mukiha,thats some good inspiration for us starters,I am currently on my first mortgage (a flat) I am not paying more than I should,what I am doing is investing monthly in the NSE with the intention of making a lumpsum payment on the house later (I am hoping the NSE will pay better than the interest that I would have saved by paying high monthly instalments),but I have also identified a new upgrade that i will make a deposit for some time this year and the houses will be ready in 2-3 year period. I will then sell my house and upgrade to the bigger space or if I will have completed the payments,then i will simply start on the new mortgage and rent the current one.

Having said that,I think the point on cost of borrowing is that its just unnecessarily high in Kenya. 14-15% interest p.a on a long-term loan is unfair esp. when one considers that T-B's average 7% and interest income for deposits is 1-3%.


I guess if you can't win with facts,you can always pen bile-laced,xenophobic rants to distract everyone.
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
McReggae
#12 Posted : Wednesday, May 06, 2009 5:45:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
Mukiha,

Good stuff,how were you able to get your pension payment before you reach the retirement age,ama umefika broda!!!!


Make money.....then you will enjoy all the fine things in life!!!
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
mukiha
#13 Posted : Wednesday, May 06, 2009 7:42:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
As at the time of termination of employment,the Daudi Mwiraria pensions rule had not been effected. Thus my pension had been withdrawn and placed in an interest earning account awaiting collection.
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
Gordon Gekko
#14 Posted : Wednesday, May 06, 2009 11:06:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/27/2008
Posts: 3,760
Using pensions to pay for mortgage... Last I heard was we were waiting for the Regulations to be gazetted. Anyone with the inside story?
Jokimy
#15 Posted : Wednesday, May 06, 2009 1:28:00 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/26/2009
Posts: 15
Mortgage rates are quite high! At the end of the repayment period,you end up paying 2-2.5 times the loan value. To take or not to take a mortgage is a decision to be taken carefully after several considerations.

If you are now paying rent to a landlord,how much would you spend in rent in 15 years? If you set a similar amount and invest it each month,how much would it be in 15 years. Will it be enough to buy the same property at that time? (in 15 years).

I took a mortgage last year,but the rate is 6% (negotiated by employer with HF) and am repaying slightly less than the current rent level in the area. However,from last year the property value has increased by 60%.(as it has in several areas in Nairobi).

These are some considerations to make.

Note the law allowing the withdrawal of pension funds for house purchase was not gazetted. However,when you change jobs,you can access the personal pension contributions in full,but you cannot access the contributions from the employer until you retire.


The plans of the diligent lead surely to plenty,but those of everyone who is hasty,surely to poverty.
Tokyo
#16 Posted : Wednesday, May 06, 2009 10:33:00 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/9/2006
Posts: 1,502
@ mukiha. a job well done. Congratulations.

@ Obi. A very good decision.keep it up Bro`.

The main advantage of the mortgage in Kenya despite the high interest is the reselling value after finishing payments.Property prices increase will continue to well the near future especially Nrb.meaning mortgage as far as you can honor the contract is good decision.In Japan is opposite.If you get mortgage[even if 0% interest],build a new house,spend one night .You will be very lucky to get 85% of the cost after reselling the second day.
work to prosper
Gordon Gekko
#17 Posted : Thursday, May 07, 2009 5:01:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/27/2008
Posts: 3,760
Interesting article in today's Standard on Sharia mortgages.

http://www.eastandard.ne...013476&cid=470&
MoKenya
#18 Posted : Thursday, May 07, 2009 5:07:00 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/17/2008
Posts: 25

@ Obi Kanobi

I have learnt to trust the ways of people who already have done something I want to do myself; they know where to avoid the real life pitfalls . You and Mukiha are definitely an inspiration in this home ownership issue. My strategy has been to prepare a large lump sum amount; at least half or more of the anticipated mortgage,then finance the remainder. I am getting close. I will make sure that the financed part has no pre-payment penalty clause. This way I will be able to pay off my balance when I find some more funds.


That said,I notice that the upgrade you plan to invest in falls within my planning time period to buy or place a deposit for my pod. I was wondering if you could share the details of where yours is,if there are more buildings coming up in the area. I am still looking and have not settled on a place yet. Can be reached at waslosh at yahoo.com

rishman
#19 Posted : Friday, May 08, 2009 5:51:00 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3
hi all

another point is lets say you take the mortgage for 15yrs then u want to sell the house after 5 or so years as the house price has appreciated. Can u sell the house before u have cleared the entire loan or does the bank prevent u from doing so


bobby the shares guru
Obi 1 Kanobi
#20 Posted : Saturday, May 09, 2009 11:35:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
@Richman

Nothing stops one from selling the house before you complete paying,but there will be costs,e.g. early payment charges by the lender (which I personally think is theft),and the cost of paperwork (lawyer fees and registration fees etc) which is sometimes even 200K and which you lose when you sell off your house and have to pay for an upgrade.

And the most important thing people ignore is the inflation. E.g you buy a house for 2M and value appreciates to 4M in 2 years,the question is whether the 2M is a real gain or just paper coz if you sold the house,you would still need to buy a similar one at market value so be careful before selling,make sure you know exactly what you are going to do with the proceeds,upgrading is a damn good idea if you have additional funds or if you can now qualify for a higher mortgage.


I guess if you can't win with facts,you can always pen bile-laced,xenophobic rants to distract everyone.
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
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