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Murang'a County
MaichBlack
#11 Posted : Monday, September 13, 2010 11:55:51 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,837
@masukuma - I totally agree with you. The cost of running the government under the new constitution will be enormous! Are we still going to pay the MPigs close to a million per month? How many are we going to have under the new constitution? Does the new constitution allow us to slash their salaries - to say 300k per month [They are actually worth less than that!], How many governors? Senators? Are we going to pay governors more than MPigs as I think we will? Add to that employees at the county level and you will see the bigger picture. I'm afraid counties will start levying their own taxes. We will probably be charged for 'importing' or 'exporting' goods to and from other counties. Don't think I'm imagining too much - the City Council does it - from chicken to sand and other stuff!

What I want to hear from the government [lead by Jomo's son], civil society, economist, wazuans etc. is exactly how much it is going to cost to run the government(s) going forward and where the money will come from.
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
safariant
#12 Posted : Monday, September 13, 2010 12:04:34 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 9/9/2010
Posts: 784
Location: ant hill - red hill
Its funny that all through the Constitutional debates no one talked about the cost.

what is the current recurrent expenditure budget proportion and with the government size set to double can we afford it?
The greatest act of bravery is chancing a fart while suffering from diarrhoea
MaichBlack
#13 Posted : Monday, September 13, 2010 12:11:39 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,837
safariant wrote:
Its funny that all through the Constitutional debates no one talked about the cost.

what is the current recurrent expenditure budget proportion and with the government size set to double can we afford it?

Correction. I did. But 'everyone' was imagining that raising this issues is tantamount to campaigning for yes. Some very educated individuals were responding by simply saying "All the money we will save by eliminating corruption will pay for these...". Never mind they couldn't quantify exactly how much we currently loose in corruption, how the new constitution will ensure we don't continue loosing these amounts [or a specific percentage of it] and most importantly the exact additional cost [for comparison purposes]!!!
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
2012
#14 Posted : Monday, September 13, 2010 12:12:24 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,592
Location: Nairobi
safariant wrote:
Its funny that all through the Constitutional debates no one talked about the cost.

what is the current recurrent expenditure budget proportion and with the government size set to double can we afford it?


I would really not worry much about costs. Kenyans have decided and we'll do it at any cost. A lot of money has been spend most of it wasted in the search for this new constitution. Once it's in place we'll make it all back. I call it a good investment and there is no better investment than giving hopeless people some hope. It's a cost that many nations have paid with blood.

BBI will solve it
:)
doubtfire
#15 Posted : Monday, September 13, 2010 1:05:34 PM
Rank: New-farer

Joined: 6/11/2010
Posts: 90
Location: kenya
@2012

Hiyo ni kweli kabisa

infact we dont have to worry about the money.we will get aprox a hopping 7m from mps tax which i believe we assist.
masukuma
#16 Posted : Monday, September 13, 2010 1:14:26 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
We have just created a way to move money from the left pocket to the right one and added administrative costs for doing it AKA Big Government. Currently local Governments i.e. County councils, Municipal councils and City councils already have some cess and some other funny operation taxes (yet they have Latf Nairobi's Latf was 1.96 billion in the 2009/2010 year) I dont know what will happen when Central Government fails to give its due to the Counties....those will be turbulent times.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
2012
#17 Posted : Monday, September 13, 2010 2:21:22 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,592
Location: Nairobi
masukuma wrote:
I dont know what will happen when Central Government fails to give its due to the Counties....those will be turbulent times.


And why will it fail to remit? I don't see that scenario occurring because there will be a big enough surplus from the wealthy counties to take care of the deficits of poor counties.

BBI will solve it
:)
masukuma
#18 Posted : Monday, September 13, 2010 6:13:42 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
surplus? you think we have surplus? Hivi ndio watu walidanganywa juu ya pyramid schemes [money created in some obscure manner, increase by division] If the total pie is not enough (AKA living beyond our means) how can the slicing of it for everyone while having crumbs fall off the cake be enough? no matter how we slice it - we need a bigger cake. Countries that have made it made it through creating wealth not sharing the little they have that means we need to find some oil, raid some country, be tax free havens, be like switzerland and offer banking for crooks, colonize some region, make treaties with south sudan when they secede to do oil drilling huko, lower our wages (i have heard of people with masters in Asia being payed what we call peanuts in Kenya), Reduce the cost of power e.t.c. not by sharing crumbs and hoping someone will have some surplus.
has anyone given a thought to capacity building for counties? the 15% may just disappear coz people lack capacity to handle it. remember its 15% of money we did not have.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
Kusadikika
#19 Posted : Monday, September 13, 2010 7:51:54 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/22/2008
Posts: 2,721
masukuma wrote:
surplus? you think we have surplus? Hivi ndio watu walidanganywa juu ya pyramid schemes [money created in some obscure manner, increase by division] If the total pie is not enough (AKA living beyond our means) how can the slicing of it for everyone while having crumbs fall off the cake be enough? no matter how we slice it - we need a bigger cake. Countries that have made it made it through creating wealth not sharing the little they have that means we need to find some oil, raid some country, be tax free havens, be like switzerland and offer banking for crooks, colonize some region, make treaties with south sudan when they secede to do oil drilling huko, lower our wages (i have heard of people with masters in Asia being payed what we call peanuts in Kenya), Reduce the cost of power e.t.c. not by sharing crumbs and hoping someone will have some surplus.
has anyone given a thought to capacity building for counties? the 15% may just disappear coz people lack capacity to handle it. remember its 15% of money we did not have.



You raise a very valid point @masukuma. Just how much control will counties have over their ability to raise revenue. Right now the discussion is about distributing money that they are allocated from the national kitty but is this really devolution?

What about people deciding how they can increase their revenue? As an example, can Nakuru county enter into an agreement with a multinational company to exploit the geothermal power in Menengai crater. Can it borrow money? Can Kakamega county put up a bullfighting arena? Can Busia county pass laws to allow it to exploit its natural resource of good Canabis? Can Mombasa county pass laws to allow for a red light district?
masukuma
#20 Posted : Monday, September 13, 2010 9:45:43 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
All valid questions or are we just having consumer counties.
on a light note and on the Canabis issue....Busia can, Laws that appertain to drug use and enforcement are at county level. Miraa banned in one County and an export of another. I am guessing the Pharmacy and Poison's Act will need to be done in 47 different ways.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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