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Our PM loves everything foreign
Pastor M
#1 Posted : Wednesday, September 08, 2010 9:12:47 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/18/2009
Posts: 303
http://www.nation.co.ke/.../-/ls8o7cz/-/index.html

It was Hey after firing Kimanzi....now Even though Kenya has more than 30 legal drafters at the AG’s office, the Kenya Law Reform Commission (KLRC) and Parliament, not all of them have the experience to deal with the proposed laws in the new Constitution....so Attorney General Amos Wako is set to fly to London this week to negotiate for more experienced drafters....very sad Sad even in Africa hakuna hata mmoja ama is our PM wanting to please the west.
Njung'e
#2 Posted : Wednesday, September 08, 2010 9:25:04 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 11,935
Location: Nairobi
@Pastor,
Wacha siasa ya hela mbili!!.......Wako will be negotiating for commonwealth drafters and not English drafters.We all know Zimbabwe,Uganda,Rwanda and Ghana are in Africa.
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
mjuaji wa stocks
#3 Posted : Wednesday, September 08, 2010 9:37:05 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/16/2010
Posts: 672
Location: nairobi
wa wa wa wa....this Odinga....God help us...the guy doesnt know any other language apart from that of foreigners...foreigners....foreigners!!

I wonder if he were president whether he will be the one leading the country ama tutakuwa colonized mara ya pili physically....coz we are still colonized currently in many ways....i dont know what people see in this guy that is appealing to them....except the manipulated opinion polls that are done to bring him to power (Read puppet of the west) this guy has nothing to offer...

I am glad i voted NO .. and i'd better burn my vote than vote for him in any way!!

Na sasa eti kuna national democractic institute...ambayo kenya inatumiwa kama entry point to the continent...waaa....the west...

Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you
God gave me the power to make wealth ... Blessed the work of my hands & enabled be A SELF MADE BILLIONAIRE ...... TO GOD THE FATHER OF MY LORD JESUS CHRIST; BE THE GLORY NOW & FOREVER MORE!

Pastor M
#4 Posted : Wednesday, September 08, 2010 9:40:43 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/18/2009
Posts: 303
@Njunge'e my question is why should we import people from EU,US etc...I thought the AG and the justice ministers have been drafting bills every other day. Isnt that enough experience? I thought someone was insisting that we need purely homegrown document..... I thought that is the reason why we have a Kenyan Law school where all our law students must go through despite having their law degree in other countries...that is what I thought...
vinii
#5 Posted : Wednesday, September 08, 2010 10:15:17 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/14/2009
Posts: 2,057
Pastor M wrote:
@Njunge'e my question is why should we import people from EU,US etc...I thought the AG and the justice ministers have been drafting bills every other day. Isnt that enough experience? I thought someone was insisting that we need purely homegrown document..... I thought that is the reason why we have a Kenyan Law school where all our law students must go through despite having their law degree in other countries...that is what I thought...



This is a huge task my good pastor...i doubt whether we have the capacity to do the job 'in-house' within the timelines in the law. Remember the drafters are just technical people, the bills will not become 'foreign' because of their technical input...lets not see the devil lurking in every corner that we take towards implementation of the new constitution...
If you are an eagle don't hang around with chickens; chickens don't fly....
radio
#6 Posted : Wednesday, September 08, 2010 10:24:00 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/9/2009
Posts: 2,003
Experience my foot!! Mr. PM, lets make this Kenyan by involving Kenyans! How many bills have been drafted in the parliament for the last 47 years by Kenyans.

This thing, about running to foreigners does not impress me much Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you
mkenyan
#7 Posted : Wednesday, September 08, 2010 11:26:18 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 4/1/2009
Posts: 1,883
relax people. before shooting off from the hip and blaming the ag or pm you need to first ask yourself if what you are saying that kenya has the capacity to draft is correct. because if we do not then your ignorance just expose you to be that ever increasing breed of kenyans who like to blame blame and then blame some without first getting the facts.

i am saying that coz a couple of month or so before the referendum, i was talking to some lawyers on the then proposed constitution. what they said was that those lawyers that have the expertise in drafting would make a killing - in fact they were saying that it was best for lawyers to start doing post graduate courses in drafting and make a killing out of it.

the reason?

because in kenya we lack competent (or qualified if you wish) drafters. drafting requiires more than a law degree as they do not really teach it much in law school - just the basics. so to get there you have to consider a post graduate degree, experience etc.

that in kenya there are like only a couple of competent drafters and they are always travelling the world over (read - giving their services to other jurisdictions, not just kenya) because of the need of their services.

so you may assume that the drafters in the ag's office and the law reform commission are enough but you shall be unfortunately wrong.
Mpenzi
#8 Posted : Wednesday, September 08, 2010 11:26:36 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/17/2008
Posts: 1,234
Anybody who thinks we have legislative draftsmen worth their name in this country ought to read the 5 employment-related statutes that were enacted in 2007 or more recently the Alcoholic Drinks Control Act, 2010. All pieces of legislative crap.

Note: I am not opposed to the intent and purpose of the abovementioned statutes - but the translation of such intent and purpose into law has, to say the least, has been done very incompetently.

I can say without any fear of contradiction that competent legislative draftsmen in Kenya are not more than 5, yes Five!

However much we may be not like South Africans, esp the whites, we need to tap the experienced legal drafts(wo)men there. The new Constitution is in many ways similar to South Africa's (we have copied large sections of the South African Bill of Rights almost word for word, for example). South Africa has had to draft numerous new statutes to implement the post-apartheid 1994/96 Constitution and am sure we could benefit from their experience.

Legislative drafting is an art, almost a science in fact,and you got to know what you are doing - possession of a law degree is far from enough, possession of a masters in legislative drafting is a step forward - but you have to actually draft,draft and draft to be good at the job. And most importantly, you must be a master of the English language and grammar period!
mwenza
#9 Posted : Wednesday, September 08, 2010 11:30:36 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/22/2009
Posts: 2,863
And to haters of foreigners and anything foreign, please tell me.....

As developed as they are, why does England have a foreign coach for their National Team?
IF YOU EXPECT ME TO POST ANYTHING POSITIVE ABOUT ASENO, YOU MAY AS WELL SIT ON A PIN
Seeders
#10 Posted : Wednesday, September 08, 2010 11:59:17 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/17/2010
Posts: 234
Location: Nairobi
help needed? yes. but must be a team with max 30% foreign 'experts'. goal should be to impart knowledge. not outsourcing.

else, i see another overrated american consultancy taking vacations in the bahamas on our taxes for the next 200 years.

and can the indians, brazilians, russians or even the communist chinese also help? i doubt the anglo saxon alliance will want to share the glory (euphemism for government contracts).
mjuaji wa stocks
#11 Posted : Wednesday, September 08, 2010 12:04:51 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/16/2010
Posts: 672
Location: nairobi
AAAAAI!....first it was the running berger telling RAO and BAKS wasifungua ile bank .... i think trade bank....the jana RAO na albright eti then ...leteni foreigners watusaidie....no matter your explanations....i dont buy this arguement of this foreigners.....waje wakae kwa viti then watuambia hii inafanywa hivi na hii inafanywa hivi......hakuna kitu kama hii.....

By the way did you know that israel doesnt have a constitution and they are an envy of many....

Some people should grow up NOT JUST GROW OLD!
God gave me the power to make wealth ... Blessed the work of my hands & enabled be A SELF MADE BILLIONAIRE ...... TO GOD THE FATHER OF MY LORD JESUS CHRIST; BE THE GLORY NOW & FOREVER MORE!

McReggae
#12 Posted : Wednesday, September 08, 2010 12:08:58 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
mjuaji wa stocks, don't think with emotions!!!!
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
FundamentAli
#13 Posted : Wednesday, September 08, 2010 12:53:30 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/4/2008
Posts: 1,289
Location: Nairobi
Relax guys. The drafters at AG chambers are bure kabisa. The number of omissions they have made on small bills is amazing. So many bills have had to go back to parliament after the courts rejected them after they have become law due to conflict, inconsistencies, ambiguity and glaring omissions. The problem is that the post of a drafter is not a prominent one and therefore does not attract experienced lawyers.
mjuaji wa stocks
#14 Posted : Wednesday, September 08, 2010 12:56:37 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/16/2010
Posts: 672
Location: nairobi
@Mcreggae...wewe...kwani hiyo ni tanakali ya sauti ama ni mnyambuliko wa kitenzii....

i didnt know there are people who think with their emotions....

I thought watu wote hutumia brain...

Yaani nakwambia am not using my emotions to think....smile


But i understand what you r saying anyway..

God gave me the power to make wealth ... Blessed the work of my hands & enabled be A SELF MADE BILLIONAIRE ...... TO GOD THE FATHER OF MY LORD JESUS CHRIST; BE THE GLORY NOW & FOREVER MORE!

nostoppingthis
#15 Posted : Wednesday, September 08, 2010 1:07:51 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 8/24/2009
Posts: 5,909
Location: Nairobi
There was a discussion on glaring errors on drafters of the new constitution

http://www.wazua.com/for...aspx?g=posts&m=79777
MaichBlack
#16 Posted : Wednesday, September 08, 2010 1:37:05 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,452
This is typical Kenyan approach!!! We [as a Nation] don't think ahead!! Our so called leaders are absolutely bure kabisa!!! We have be working on this new constitution for 20yrs and nobody said "Wait a minute, when we finally get a new constitution, we will need this many drafters. Why don't we get some people trained, have them work - on some sort of 'attachment' basis - in countries that are busy drafting their laws so that when we finally have a new constitution we can draft the laws in-house."

Absolutely bure kabisa. Even the AG himself did not foresee this? Kenya Law Society? All this NGOs, pressure groups, civil society, bla bla bla?
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
McReggae
#17 Posted : Wednesday, September 08, 2010 2:16:15 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
Maichblack, which one do your think is cheaper!!!!!
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
MaichBlack
#18 Posted : Wednesday, September 08, 2010 2:23:33 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,452
McReggae wrote:
Maichblack, which one do your think is cheaper!!!!!

@McReggae - Which one is 'cheaper', buying a house or renting? Which one would you rather do? This is not the end of drafting laws. Will we always outsource?

By the way, if requested government to government, it would have cost us almost nothing! The US and other 'development partners' have given us and are still giving us money 'to support reforms'. This is a bill they would have gladly picked! That is if we must be helped. But we can definitely afford it - with all the billions we loose in corruption it would sound like pocket change!
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
mwenza
#19 Posted : Wednesday, September 08, 2010 2:35:07 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/22/2009
Posts: 2,863
mwenza wrote:
And to haters of foreigners and anything foreign, please tell me.....

As developed as they are, why does England have a foreign coach for their National Team?



Yet to get an answer.
IF YOU EXPECT ME TO POST ANYTHING POSITIVE ABOUT ASENO, YOU MAY AS WELL SIT ON A PIN
McReggae
#20 Posted : Wednesday, September 08, 2010 3:15:58 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
Maichblack, I thought it was upon an individual to chose whatever course he/she wanna, honestly I dont think we can blame Wako coz nobody has chosen to study this discipline further!!!!
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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