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Safaricon the most EXPENSIVE provider
Tebes
#181 Posted : Wednesday, August 25, 2010 12:21:26 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/26/2008
Posts: 2,097
I just long for the time when CCK will enforce the intended rule on single on-net and off-net tariffs within the networks. This will be the end of the DORMINANT OPERATOR manipulations!!! Add this to the sim portability and we shall all be the winners as consumers of the service.
"Never regret, if its good, its wonderful. If its bad, its experience."
sparkly
#182 Posted : Wednesday, August 25, 2010 8:57:27 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
Just been thinking. If zain was listed and it was trading at same PE with saf, same div yield. Would you buy zain or saf?
Life is short. Live passionately.
Horton
#183 Posted : Wednesday, August 25, 2010 9:38:02 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 8/30/2007
Posts: 1,558
Location: Nairobi
sparkly wrote:
Just been thinking. If zain was listed and it was trading at same PE with saf, same div yield. Would you buy zain or saf?

Neither. Too competitive. I prefer businesses that have net margins of 40% or more eg CARBACID
Wendz
#184 Posted : Wednesday, August 25, 2010 10:54:34 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/19/2008
Posts: 4,268
Mpenzi wrote:
Wendz, if Safcon had not lowered its rates you would have remained there?


Chances are, i would have moved, but most probably, to orange. But i was not going to jump ship yet because i knew Safcom wont take it lying down and it seems my patience worked for me. I love stability.... Zain doesnt give me that... it behaves like a slut wooing everyone all over the world - it has moved so much that if you ask some people in that organisation, they still think they work for kencell.... i dont like kuyumbayumba....
Abunuasi
#185 Posted : Wednesday, August 25, 2010 11:04:49 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 8/25/2010
Posts: 97
Location: Kenya
Diversification is the key to success in business. Safaricom doesnt rely on voice calls only. We, the consumers are happy that the rates are down but businesswise, i dont know where companies like Pain and Yu will derive profits from. Mpesa, data and laptops/handsets sale will be very key to safcm revenue going foward.

Cha mwenzako kikinyolewa, chako kitie maji... Babu aliniambia
Wendz
#186 Posted : Wednesday, August 25, 2010 11:05:54 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/19/2008
Posts: 4,268
sparkly wrote:
Just been thinking. If zain was listed and it was trading at same PE with saf, same div yield. Would you buy zain or saf?


Zain would be a riskier stock. Apart from the local market risk, it would attract other external risks from diverse markets.
chris79
#187 Posted : Wednesday, August 25, 2010 11:15:31 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 7/31/2007
Posts: 341
Way to go Wendz, I'm safcom diehard as well...
guru267
#188 Posted : Wednesday, August 25, 2010 11:51:44 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
Abunuasi wrote:
Diversification is the key to success in business. Safaricom doesnt rely on voice calls only. We, the consumers are happy that the rates are down but businesswise, i dont know where companies like Pain and Yu will derive profits from. Mpesa, data and laptops/handsets sale will be very key to safcm revenue going foward.

Cha mwenzako kikinyolewa, chako kitie maji... Babu aliniambia

@abunuasi do you realize voice is still 70% of revenue??
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
Abunuasi
#189 Posted : Wednesday, August 25, 2010 12:01:56 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 8/25/2010
Posts: 97
Location: Kenya
@guru267
safcm profits will go down. No debate about that. Biggest qn is what will happen to Pain which has no other source of revenue????
Safcm got over 3B last financial yr from sale of laptops/phones only. How much did pain make from the same?
Mwenye nguvu mpishe!! Babu alinifunza
erifloss
#190 Posted : Wednesday, August 25, 2010 12:06:21 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/21/2010
Posts: 514
Location: Nairobi
alma wrote:
erifloss wrote:

Anyone who knows AT&T will know how this war might end.


@arifloss I like your thinking however

This idea of safaricom doing some great things in data is extremely flawed. You are using AT& T and I can assure you. This data thing from safaricom is the most overhyped BS i have ever heard.

It is never about the rates. It's about perception with the customer. Safcom looks greedy and once it goes that way, it looks like AT&T. Greedy.

I am very sure you know of people who have moved in the past week. Those ones will never come back. not with preconditions on how they should call in the venerable safcom.

As for data.

Unless safcom is doing cable for connectivity, they are as doomed as AT&T.

Only one company is doing this and its Wananchi in zuku. Where i live everyone is on zuku unlimited for 2k a month. I mean everyone.

Once zuku goes live with its cable on KPLC lines, you can kiss goodbye to these modems people carry about.

what happens when zain and orange (wait for orange offer soon) go data too?

4G is not the future of data. It is cable in your home. Unless safcom is doing that, then expect more price wars soon.

so please, if morgan stanley has seen the wisdom of downgrading safcom, you should too. Because safcom revenues are about to be hit, and hit hard.



@Alma, First remember that AT & T is still the largest telecommunications company in the US, though Verizon is trying to pull a Zain on them (visit their website and you'll realise that they are offering a lot of data products).

Safaricom has also aquired companies that deal with Wimax to OFC and still have substantial ownership of the undersea cable though they are still recouping this investment.
Most young people, businessmen, entrepreneurs are on the move. They like having internet on the move and remember when they talk of having internet penetration of more than 1 million people, they don't refer to households! Its you who they talk about, on your laptop or phone (would you prefer 3G or 4G?)

Morgan Stanley might be right but what i see is a company that prepared itself way ahead of its competitors and realised that the only way to survive in business is diversification. Safaricom had already realised that the ARPU on calls was going to drop and prepared themselves for this.
I am sure that safaricom may be having a new data product that we all are not yet aware of and if you ask telecommunication infrastructure companies who their largest client has been for the last 6 months and the one they are preparing to do more work for in the coming months?....Safaricom would be their answer (Huawei's GSM division is even recruiting engineers for this).

Thus as a long term investor, i'm comfortable the future is green.
'They say money cannot buy me happiness but when i compare when i had none and now, i'm happier' Kevin O'leary
erifloss
#191 Posted : Wednesday, August 25, 2010 12:11:25 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/21/2010
Posts: 514
Location: Nairobi
bkismat wrote:
erifloss wrote:
The offer is ok why you may ask,
1. Out of 10 people on anyones phonebook, 8 are on safaricom. Meaning you make more calls to safaricom. So why not stick with safcom and call them at Kshs. 2!
2. Most of the people switching to Zain are actually doing so to call guys from safaricom. Still why pay 3 when i can pay 2!
3. From an investors point of view, the more subscribers zain gets the better, why? Most of these guys will be calling the better option helping them make money through the interconnection fees.
4. What most guys don't realise is that even if a company is so mighty, it can't take so much losses into their books for long. If you look at zain, it has been making losses of which they have been carrying forward.Though today's investor looks at wealth maximisation rather than profit maximisation, profit has got a large part to play in that when i'm buying a stock i'm buying a share of there future profits. Simply said, how long do you think Bharti's shareholders are going to let 'Zain' eat into their wealth whereas safaricom is causing nightmares and rapidly expanding in many fronts (ICT and Banking-money transfer)thus creating more wealth?
Anyone who knows AT&T will know how this war might end.

Mr. Erifloss. Im very happy that Zain has finally made safaricom see the light.If you have been keenly following this discussion then you will realise that majority of the subscribers don't care whether zain or safaricom make a profit or a loss, all we care about is how much it will cost us.At least for the next one moth we shall enjoy more affordable rates and safcon has stopped spewing verbal diarrhea with terms like EBIDTA and shareholder value retention.BTW what is EBIDTA?


@Bkismat, EBIDTA means Earnings Before Interest Dvidends and Tax
'They say money cannot buy me happiness but when i compare when i had none and now, i'm happier' Kevin O'leary
Wa_ithaka
#192 Posted : Wednesday, August 25, 2010 12:18:09 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/7/2010
Posts: 1,279
Location: nbi
The Ksh63bn question is this-given voice revenue will at best half over the next 2/3 years from pricing alone, will Safaricom be able to get the same from its new products?
The Governor of Nyeri - 2017
bkismat
#193 Posted : Wednesday, August 25, 2010 12:19:45 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/23/2009
Posts: 2,375
@ Abunuasi fro safaricon marketing dept.Nothing u say will move us.
It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt...
-Mark Twain
TUPAC
#194 Posted : Wednesday, August 25, 2010 12:20:37 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/8/2009
Posts: 274
Location: Ltktk
EBITDA- earnings before interest, tax depreciation & armotization.
...things fall apart...the centre cannot hold..mere anarchy is loosed upon the world...w b yeats
ken1979
#195 Posted : Wednesday, August 25, 2010 12:58:37 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 8/25/2010
Posts: 8
Location: Nairobi, Kenya
My people, our customers,


It is what we call smart, in touch with customer needs decisions. Safaricom does not engage in price wars but listens to its customers while taking care of its shareholder’s interests. The recent price changes by Zain, and indeed their childish games of mounting loud speakers at Safaricom’s headquarters for a whole day goes to prove how out of touch with their customers they are. The noises, if meant to be part of their advertisement policy, would have been more effective if made at a crowded market place of the true customer, and not trying to convert Safaricom employees to be their customers. Its not the first time, it won’t be the last, and quite frankly a waste of time.

Safaricom took its time to listen. Indeed, the voice market in Kenya has been over-priced. This has mainly been driven by CCK’s interconnect fees. It was only a matter of time for Safaricom to lower its tariffs to more affordable rates since there was no motivation to continue charging high rates when CCK has lowered the inter-connect rate.

Most of our customers have always advocated for recognition when they buy Safaricom services, and especially when they spend more. It was in this light that Safaricom decided to put spending rates in the customer’s hands. It all started with Supa Ongea Tariff, and now, if you load 100 shillings worth of airtime in your phone, you make calls much cheaper than our less amiable competitor’s rates.

Did you know that Our competitor’s tariff is per minute? I called their call center last evening, and I was promptly told it’s that way because it is much cheaper. Zain may have gotten cheaper, but their dirty tricks of not disclosing all the terms and conditions of their charges still prevails. Safaricom’s tariffs have always been on a per second billing. We started that game, need I remind you, when Zain’s (then KenCell) way of doing business was to deduct 57 shillings for every 300 shillings voucher you bought, and still you would be charged per minute at 36 shillings. Meaning, every call you make, if the call ended at 1.000000000001 minutes, you would pay 72 shillings for it. Do you see that trend here? Old dogs don’t really learn new tricks, do they?

Well, most would dismiss this as wounded lion’s reaction, but it is just the truth. Safaricom will only charge you 2 shillings per minute or 3.33 cents per second if you load your phone with airtime of 100 shillings and above. Zain will still charge you a full 3 shillings for every second until it clocks 60 seconds. If your call ends at 10 seconds, its still 3 shillings. If it ends at 1 minute 1 second and 2 milli-seconds (like David Rudisha’s record breaking time), it will be 6 shillings. So who is kidding who?

Safaricom decided to start out as a promotion, but I am sure of this. With the reaction this is getting, it will be made permanent. This is why. By clearly targeting increased volume through offering better rates the more you spend, Safaricom ensures that the cut in price is matched by increase in volume. That is what people who care about their shareholders (especially if those shareholders are nationals in the country the operate) do. The last thing you want to happen is to make Kenyans even poorer. Who owns Zain? Is it trading at the stock exchange? Safaricom is not saying you should cling to it just because you are Kenyan. Safaricom says welcome to the better option because you deserve it. Because it is cheaper. Because it is the most innovative company this side of the Sahara. Because it holds the enviable position of the most profitable company this side of the Sahara. And that, ladies and gentlemen, comes with a greater social responsibility. These values must be upheld for an organization in that position that cares.

So, Safaricom does not view what is currently going on in the market as child’s play like Zain would like you to believe. Ask Zain what is happening to their sales. When next you go to a dealer shop that sells bothe Safaricom and Zain airtime, ask then if Zain airtime is still moving. Ask them how sales are with Safaricom airtime, and what denominations are moving. That will cement the difference between a clear thinking, visionary company does versus what a reactionary, short sighted one does. Speaking of short sightedness, Safaricom has been on 3G for the last 2 years now. Zain is just launching their 3G network. Safaricom is in the process of launching 4G. The data business beckons and the frontier has already been raided by Safaricom, while Zain still plays catch-up on the voice front.

People have said to me, “We welcome Indians because of their shrewdness in doing business. Well, Safaricom is ready for them. Kenyans are ready for then. It’s a level playing field, and its Zain’s to gain and Safaricom’s to lose. Let’s see if indeed we Kenyans can lose to the Indian companies on our home tuff. Essar has been here for a while. Essar who?

Simply put, start caring about Zain, Essar, Orange, and any other that may come in after they list on the stock exchange. After they give Kenyans a chance to share in their profits. After they appoint Kenyans to their boards. After they employ Kenyans in higher level management positions. After they become visionary. After they start giving back to society. After they become cheaper. After they exercise some maturity. After they stop changing ownership like underwear. After they start caring about you and what you think. After they start giving stable jobs with benefits to fellow Kenyans. After they become Kenyan.

I beg to bow out. I am staying with Safaricom!
the sage
#196 Posted : Wednesday, August 25, 2010 1:14:17 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/20/2008
Posts: 367
@ken1979
Simply put, start caring about Zain, Essar, Orange, and any other that may come in after they list on the stock exchange. After they give Kenyans a chance to share in their profits. After they appoint Kenyans to their boards. After they employ Kenyans in higher level management positions. After they become visionary. After they start giving back to society. After they become cheaper. After they exercise some maturity. After they stop changing ownership like underwear. After they start caring about you and what you think. After they start giving stable jobs with benefits to fellow Kenyans. After they become Kenyan.

Dude are you serious, stay with Safaricom, all I care is who is giving me value for money, all this companies can bring in even experts to sweep the floors and make team while taking back all the profits as long as I can spend less on airtime.
bkismat
#197 Posted : Wednesday, August 25, 2010 1:16:05 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/23/2009
Posts: 2,375
erifloss wrote:
bkismat wrote:
erifloss wrote:
The offer is ok why you may ask,
1. Out of 10 people on anyones phonebook, 8 are on safaricom. Meaning you make more calls to safaricom. So why not stick with safcom and call them at Kshs. 2!
2. Most of the people switching to Zain are actually doing so to call guys from safaricom. Still why pay 3 when i can pay 2!
3. From an investors point of view, the more subscribers zain gets the better, why? Most of these guys will be calling the better option helping them make money through the interconnection fees.
4. What most guys don't realise is that even if a company is so mighty, it can't take so much losses into their books for long. If you look at zain, it has been making losses of which they have been carrying forward.Though today's investor looks at wealth maximisation rather than profit maximisation, profit has got a large part to play in that when i'm buying a stock i'm buying a share of there future profits. Simply said, how long do you think Bharti's shareholders are going to let 'Zain' eat into their wealth whereas safaricom is causing nightmares and rapidly expanding in many fronts (ICT and Banking-money transfer)thus creating more wealth?
Anyone who knows AT&T will know how this war might end.

Mr. Erifloss. Im very happy that Zain has finally made safaricom see the light.If you have been keenly following this discussion then you will realise that majority of the subscribers don't care whether zain or safaricom make a profit or a loss, all we care about is how much it will cost us.At least for the next one moth we shall enjoy more affordable rates and safcon has stopped spewing verbal diarrhea with terms like EBIDTA and shareholder value retention.BTW what is EBIDTA?


@Bkismat, EBIDTA means Earnings Before Interest Dvidends and Tax

d'oh!
The fact I'm on Wazua should tell you that I just need a second on Google to know what this means.But it is very useless for Safcon to try throw these words to the general populace.They are useless like kumpigia mbuzi guitar.
It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt...
-Mark Twain
propertyzote
#198 Posted : Wednesday, August 25, 2010 1:40:48 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/25/2010
Posts: 283
Location: Nairobi
simply put..in business if am saving a cent every time I make that call/transaction and the network is very reliable. I wouldn't care so much how often the company changes its directors or who seats at the board.
www.propertyzote.com the ultimate ‘one stop online shop’ of choice connecting more people with more properties at the click of a button
ken1979
#199 Posted : Wednesday, August 25, 2010 2:25:29 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 8/25/2010
Posts: 8
Location: Nairobi, Kenya
Some responses I get on this blog disapoint me. This is a blog on Wazua, a sight that targets an investor-savvy populace for God's sake!

Dont just post things out of emotion only (Though even some investment decisions may be driven by emotion). Thats not an excuse.

For someone on this forum to post that they dont care who sits at the board? I thought I had heard everything.

Principle is, never get emotionally attached to any company. I think Safaricom is a good investment for the future because its drive is futuristic. Its the only telco that is futuristic in the Kenyan market right now. But I would dump it so fast if it didnt meet this criteria. Just ask Microsoft where Apple is... and then ask Apple what happens to its stock every time their founder is taken to hospital. These things matter.

I am here for wealth creation. And I appreciate all comments made here, because usually a lot of blogging reveals insider information. If you are a valued investor, you know how much that can mean to your decisions to invest or not.

So lets post some valuable feedback. Like it or not, you care.
sky5
#200 Posted : Wednesday, August 25, 2010 2:39:07 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/7/2010
Posts: 282
Location: Nairobi
EBITDA = Earnings Before Interest Tax Depreciation and Amortisation
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