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Safaricon the most EXPENSIVE provider
Rank: Elder Joined: 6/27/2008 Posts: 4,114
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So; what is this ad I see in the newspaper saying: "NOT 1/= BUT 1/50. DETAILS TOMORROW" ? ? ? Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
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Rank: Member Joined: 8/25/2008 Posts: 144
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Wow @ Alma, that was a good piece. I Could read it over and over again.
And as somebody said, let the debate continue...
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/7/2007 Posts: 11,935 Location: Nairobi
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Zain will hit back in the next 72 hours with trump card No. 4. Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 1/4/2010 Posts: 93
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This is a rare fight where the bulls are hurting each other while the grass becomes even greener. Customer is King, keep up the fight, we are enjoying the consequences at least for now.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/15/2006 Posts: 3,905
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@alma, noted and good points.
"The most agile companies survie" Not the fastest, or leanest, but the most agile. From the times of Kencell Zain Bharti, the most frustrating thing has always been that Safaricom responds and responds...
Much as I thank Zain for lowering call rates, I must realise the score is 15-1 (customers) in the second half. And believe you me, among the common mwananchi, Safaricom is more trusted than Zain - you don't earn that overnight, and neither can you change it overnight.
I couldn't help note most of your comments are in future tense. The market place will change... let's not make any conclusion until we see Safaricom's response.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/19/2008 Posts: 4,268
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alma wrote:@muganda
excellent post. You have hit the nail on the head as to why the remaining safcom guys aren't going to move quickly.
It is actually the reason why safcom shareholders should be shaking in their knees as we speak. Number loyalty and this mobile payment thing.
Sometime this year, number portability will be a reality. You will be able to move with your phone number to the better provider. I am sure that is what YU is counting on. Very true... ask yourself, how much will safaricom make by having these number portability.... remember, safcom-safcom will be lower than all other networks... and by the way, this is a cold war... the Zain 'forever' tariffs will not be sustainable for long. The moment they raise it, people will "un"-vuka - there is something with familiarity... Its just human!
alma wrote:Mobile payment portability. It is also something that is coming soon. So you will be able to move money from mpesa to zap to orange one. How many ZAP outlets do you know? Chances are, Safaricom is well stationed to gain from this because of their accessibility... someone will Mpesa money to your Zain line and you will withdraw from an Mpesa agent... trust me..... You wont go around town looking for one corner ZAP shop when you can withdraw from any kiosk behind your house
alma wrote:Data..see my earlier post on data. If zain goes 3G, see the move with safcom modems being converted to zain and more likely orange. By the way, orange is the one to watch on data. Trust Safaricom to come up to defend its market position with more tempting offers..... we cant assume that safaricom will just sit and watch as its share goes down doing nothing
alma wrote:The days of forced loyalty to a product are coming to an end. You can no longer force customers to stick with you because of Mpesa, or your phone number. Trust the attachment that people have on their phone numbers.... still, you will be more enticed to stick to SAfcom because of lower inter-rates and especially bearing in mind the number of safcom subscribers on your phonebook.... When in Zain and calling majority of Safcom guys, Safcom still laughs all the way to the bank - hence, the impact may be as much as people may expect.
alma wrote:So when the first statement that came from safcom was " I will not change my rates because my shareholders will not make money on the poor people in Kenya" came out, I considered it the most stupid press statement since Kalonzo was Yes, NO, Yes, Yes, No No Ye. I wasnt happy with that too.... same as the way the "peculiar calling habits" made me feel... but, hey, this is not a love affair, what i need is convenience.... In any case, if i am a safcom shareholder (which i am not) i would want my CEO to protect my wealth at any cost.... nothing personal, just business.... he is just doing his job!
alma wrote:It meant that to me the consumer, I am useless unless I own shares in this wonderful company. Bottomline of business, why do you need consumers/customers? All these guys sweet talk us for our money.... well, at times safcom demands for it i have to admit....
alma wrote:That was the end of safcom rise.
Look at what happened today. The moment they announced their rates, they then gave conditions. Makes business sense.... that's why they have strategic thinkers... why respond to one subscriber when you do not have all the cards on the table? You respond tentatively, waiting for others to respond as you weigh the market mood and response... kinda like damage control to protect your turf as you work out something concrete with full information...alma wrote:from now onwards, anytime safcom comes up with a product, everyone will be looking for the conditions - I would rather work with conditions than suspicion... the reason i am not moving to zain is because the products have not made business sense yet and hence i dont foresee this status lasting for long..... alma wrote:Trust in this company is gone.
It is not the price. It never will be the price. Price wars never help any company and the indians know this. It is perception. Tell me, and i am not being a racist, how much do we remain royal to newcomers? There is this perception of 'foreigners'.... and especially if it is indian.... In my opinion, that's how EABL has managed to maintain their high prices and their lion share too... alma wrote:They have managed in one week to make everyone (naaah 0 not everyone... at least not me and @mozerat)alma wrote:including those still with safcom think that safcom is a greedy company led by people who don't care about the poor in Kenya.
Remember what Bharti said when they came to the market. They want to be known as the "village provider". They will give the villager like me products that I can understand.
Now go to shags and explain to my cucu that it is good to use safcom because they employ Kenyans and their P/E ratio is good, their 4G network is the best in the world etc. Now by the way pay more to call if you only have 20 bob to call. hahahahahahaha... i also wouldnt know how to explain that bit.... my business sense and marginal costs wouldnt work on this... ehehehehe
alma wrote:Then you will understand why you should be dumping safcom shares until the next CEO comes in. As far as I am concerned Michael Joseph's attitude may be a liability to this company now. On the shares, yes, i would run for now, but for the line, i will hold on until am convinced we have another better option.....
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Rank: Member Joined: 10/9/2009 Posts: 311
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I agree with @alma and @mozenrat. Orange are the guys to watch especially on data. I am amazed when I hear people still buying a Zain, Yu or Safaricom modems in this day and age. Katika Jangwa la Jangili ndipo Pwagu hupata Pwaguzi.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/19/2008 Posts: 4,268
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Njunge wrote:Zain will hit back in the next 72 hours with trump card No. 4. It will hit back alright... but how harder? give us a 0 calling rate? It will be a weak blow... very weak... LOL Reminds me of a service station that went on price wars to a point of selling their fuel at lower than their buying price just to get the neighboring station out of business... and the neighboring station guy maintained just slightly above above the buying price... The lower guy got so many customers who helped me make massive losses of course... you guessed who went out of business first.... Seems thats where Zain may drive itself with a lower move....
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/20/2007 Posts: 4,432
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@ wendz I agree with most of your points. The issue for me is not whether safcom or zain will make profits or sustain the prices. I don't think they have a choice. For me the issue is that Kenya will never be the same again. Where a company decides what to sell, where, how and to whom and expect no backlash. It's kind like the politics of today. Kenya has changed drastically and with sites like wazua, gone are the days of calling people "crazy people with weird calling habits. Now lets make a buck off them". People are talking. I would like to invite you for a talk with Dr. Bitange Ndemo on thursday on this change and what Kenyan business can do about it. For me this zain vs safcom thing is an indication on how we should all handle our business from now onwards. I wish the best provider the best. Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/28/2006 Posts: 25 Location: Nairobi Kenya
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For me this zain vs safcom thing is an indication on how we should all handle our business from now onwards.  I wish the best provider the best.  The main focus of the two firms is and will always be profitable. Change in one firms strategy only goes to pushes the other to relook at its strategy. Change is enevitable......Most innovate strategy wins the day as far as am concern
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 6/29/2010 Posts: 56 Location: Nairobi
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wendz and most guyz rooring 4 safcom u neva seize to amaze me. last week when zain came with this rate, everyone was bashing them that they will not make profits now saf does the same and we busy defending them and saying how they will; be the ones running and smiling all the way to the bank. how will that be and they have stooped to the level we wanted them. eveyone, lets remember the winner here is the consumer and not any1 company. and the person we should be defending here is the consumer and not saf or zain. even if a new network came kesho and they start charging lower rates, i will def migrate. m loyalty is to myself alone. mi i and myself. need i say that so far i have saved more than 50% of what i normally use on credit.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/30/2007 Posts: 1,558 Location: Nairobi
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So if scom dropped call rates. For sure. Call volumes will go up...(at least for the 1month offer period at least..LOL) will it go up by 3 times though to maintain the 21b momentum? Note, we are now only talking about scom meeting 2010 profits. Forget about even growth.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/19/2008 Posts: 4,268
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komera wrote:wendz and most guyz rooring 4 safcom u neva seize to amaze me. last week when zain came with this rate, everyone was bashing them that they will not make profits now saf does the same and we busy defending them and saying how they will; be the ones running and smiling all the way to the bank. Read my last comment above on response to @alma...... I never said it was any good business sense... if i was a shareholder i would be very worried..... as a subscriber, am good with it..... and i didnt have any intentions of jumping in the vuka bandwagon just yet... My line of thinking was, this price war will not bring down safaricom to its knees soon.... at least not very soon... if they die, they will die fighting and chances are, the opponent will be 'deader'
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,095 Location: Nairobi
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All I can say is THANK YOU to ZAIN... Coz without the bold move... sufferingcon would still be fleecing me... As for SCAM shares... SELL, SELL, SELL... coz if Zain keeps this up... the profits will be bashed in! Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/17/2008 Posts: 1,234
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Wendz, if Safcon had not lowered its rates you would have remained there?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 5/18/2008 Posts: 796
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@komera..
I'm certainly not defending Safaricom, although with my credit buying habits - I'll not move 2bob is still less than 3 bob..
but I do have beef with Zain. So I'll not move to them. They're acting like BBK who treated the rest of us like trash and are now begging us to jump over when Safcom did an "Equity" on them..
I'm glad they've forced Safcom to capitulate, but since Safcom DID capitulate, I'll stay.
And by the way, these guys up here who keep claiming that they were conned, mara fleeced, mara sijui... guyz get over your victimhood. No one asked you to stay with Safcom and pay 8/= just like no one forces people to drink 500/= coffee at Hilton.. This phenomenon amongst Kenyans is really irritating.. Now if you were complaining about NHIF where you have NO choice, that would be a different matter..
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,095 Location: Nairobi
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OK... so @mozenrat I am pissed at NHIF... Lakini, it is true... no-one forces me to use Zain (as I do) vs Safaricom... Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/30/2007 Posts: 1,558 Location: Nairobi
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Erm Zain treated us like sh*t?? Erm u do realise that was merely incompetence form their previous owners. BBK bs equity really is like comparing different things. Dude. Get it right. There is no LOYALTY factor here. It's about whoever gives the most bang for my buck. Seriously guys is it really that hard to understand?? On a different note, That's where something called MOAT comes into play when investing.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/30/2007 Posts: 1,558 Location: Nairobi
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Erm Zain treated us like sh*t?? Erm u do realise that was merely incompetence form their previous owners. BBK bs equity really is like comparing different things. Dude. Get it right. There is no LOYALTY factor here. It's about whoever gives the most bang for my buck. Seriously guys is it really that hard to understand?? On a different note, That's where something called MOAT comes into play when investing.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/7/2007 Posts: 2,182
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the debate is still on! I love this game! LOVE WHAT YOU DO, DO WHAT YOU LOVE.
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